I thought race bikes were not judged at AMCA meets, what gives now?

[KNUCK]

As usual I was reading the latest AMCA magazine and came across the article on the European AMCA meet. What a great story and well written one at that. I then saw where a 1941 Harley Davidson WR factory race bike was judged and received a junior first! How could that be as I have numerous retired old race bikes and was told by judging staff no we do not judge them anymore, period.

I then read that some of the European Judges were actually AMCA staff! So to me that means with their blessing things have changed, again. We have no head judge like in the past so I guess things can change from meet to meet or what? Who has the final word please?

Referring to September-October 2025 issue, page 36 class four results. Page 33 had real nice story about the bike as well pointing out the fact it reached 95 points on it first outing to be judged.

A photo of the WR would have been nice.

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Knuck, I didn't judge that bike at the European Meet, but we have judges who know these bikes well. The Harley WR is about the only antique competition bike you could call a production machine, and we have previously given a 1946 WR a judging award at Raalte. For my 1950 WR I have a sales brochure, a parts book, and those sheets mostly about gearing which I guess you could call a shop manual. For 1946-50 WR production numbers were 100, 20, 292, 121 and 69 so I would call these series produced motorcycles to a specification capable of being AMCA judged if restored to factory original. 1941 WR production is given as 36 units. Early drafts of the Judging Handbook defined series produced as 50-100 a year, but this did not make it to the Board approved version. I'm relaxed about 1946-50 Harley WRs being AMCA judged if restored to factory specification, but they would be the only ones for me. That batch of about fifty1948 Big Base Indian Scouts do not seem to have been built to a specification, and the sixty-ish Scouts of varying capacity built in the seventies in California had used parts with altered engine numbers in 1950/51 frames. And of course all as-raced machines are great to look at but usually heavily modified from factory original and outside our AMCA judging criteria.

[KNUCK]

Thank you for the response, but it sure seems a tight rope is being walked here. My 41 and 48 WR's have been modified so likely not a candidate given the criteria.

Here is an other example of a first year bike I have that would likely fit that criteria then. 1972 XR 750 restored to factory stock, a defined production run by Harley, plenty of data and photos. With only two options offered, Oil cooler and tachometer. I have a parts book, service manual, and the complete history book written by Allan Girdler. Likely potential judges available with a more recent production run. Surely a few other bikes would make the cut as well now that we have opened the door.

For only one year, make and model race bike to be allowed is really a slippery slope as they say. Would like the board or some committee to step in and make a decision since it was decided not to fill the head judge position.

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Knuck, we've judged XR models before so no problem there. You could ask the Judging Board for a list of judged race bikes and/or the ruling that we'd both like to see.

[KNUCK]

I intend to do just that soon as I figure out how to reach them. Or if they are listening feel free to post the list for all to see, and/or their ruling on this.

[russellmilburn]

200 Iron XR750s built for 1970. 200+ Alloy XR750s built for 1972 and they came with a Hayden oil cooler standard. The tach, cable, and drive were listed as parts and came without a mount. Disc brake parts with a different caliper mount than the XRTT were available but a brake pedal and caliper linkage had to be fabricated. The 1972 XRTT road race version was built for one year in a smaller quantity. 100 XR750s built for 1975. 83 XR750s built for 1977. 180 XR750s built for 1980. Each year has different features. Compiling judging standards for each year would be an interesting undertaking. The production numbers published for the WR, KR, KHR, XLRTT, XR750 race bikes do not match the race department records. The photos in the brochures are of pre production prototypes and do not match the as delivered bikes. What do you base your standards on?

[duffeycycles]

According to Erwin Smith, Tuman's tuner & sponsor, 648 Big Base came in a crate partially assembled with 2 rear wheels. Both wheels had 2 sprockets mounted. This gave 4 ratios for different tracks. Final assembly was done by the rider or his builder. The parts used by the rider builder did change to their tastes in seats, handlebars, carbs etc., but those were alterations from the original bike in the crate. One problem with judging is engine numbers because they were not stamped at the factory !

[vph-d]

IIRC, the Judging Committee made the decision not to judge race bikes about 4-5 years ago.
vph-d

[hacksaw01]

clean up the rules before cutting peoples magazines. . it could save the club money.