Sidecare value? & 45 Flathead

[eddiepanhead]

Wondering if anyone could educate me on the fair market value of a 46 sidecar. The body and frameare in good shape and painted. No windshield or spare tire carrier or spare. Missing a few brake parts. Give a guess.....i won't hold you to it. I know there endless variables to consider, just looking for the ball park.

I'm considering purchasing this rig to bolt on a stock 1946 WL.
Is there a BT sidecar vs. one for a 45?
Having never ridden a 45 or sidecar, is this a silly idea? Is the 45 able to hall a sidehack around well. I know they were used in the military, just not sure of the practicality. I was thinking of using this as a local family hauler.
Any and all input is appreciated.
Thanks,
Ed

[B. Rodencal]

Sidecar

The sidecar in the photo is a big twin "L" model sidecar for the BT Flat and Knuck in 1946. The 45 sidecar was the LS model made by Goulding Mfg. of Saginaw Mich., and sold Via the Motor Company by their dealers. They are hens teeth! Most were wore out. The Rocket models seemed to survive which were the Goulding models for Big Twins. You can jerry rig a big twin to a 45 but they perform awful and look awkward. Save your $$

[AdminGuy]

Bill is a bit of an expert. I agree with him. I also feel that the additional weight of a heavy side hack will beat your engine to death. The military had tons of bikes and spare engines. Beating the bikes to death was the norm. Put a buddy or tandem seat on the bike when you want to take a passenger out.

Have fun! Save your $

[HarleyCreation]

Don't know a price (got my sidecar years ago for $150), but if decent you might pick it up for a Big Twin. I agree that putting it on a 45 is not a great idea.

[Rub]

Ed, several years ago I built a 45 engine for a friend who uses it to pull a sidecar, He has a '48 WL with a Velorex sidecar on it. One of the lightest cars out there. He used it as a stock engined rig for several years with mixed results. The new build included Truett and Osborne stroker wheels with stock cams and an M51 carb. It now has a Mikuni on it. Runs well and will pull the car up to about 65 MPH. Now the drawbacks! Any 45 engine pushed that hard will not last. The owner is aware of that. A big twin sidecar will kill a 45. The Goulding car made for 45's is being totally reproduced but is still quite heavy. Keep the 45 solo or find yourself a Big Twin Flathead to pull the car. They work great! Robbie

[HarleyCreation]

Back in the 1970s I built a "homebrew" third wheel for a 45 for winter riding. Everything was bolted together. Not a weld on it (I didn't have a welder). Put a box on it for weight. Also put a reverse gear into the tranny. Got those parts from Ralphie at West Side Cycle in Milw. on FDL Ave. if anybody remembers that place. Uke wouldn't sell me reverse 45 parts. "Nope," he said. "You don't need reverse in a 45."

I don't think I ever rode that thing over 45-50mph tops. It was no speedster. But it was real good for commuting out to the UW Keno campus that was was about 6 miles away and out in the country. Nice back road ride thru Piper's onion fields and across Pike River then west. All houses now.

One time the home-made axle on the 3rd wheel broke and the wheel fell off. My dad had to come out and rescue me. He brought tools so I could take it off. The 3rd wheel rode home in his trunk. Boy was he mad!

My brother has that rig now and uses it once in awhile I guess....

[Rod K]

Hope I'm not too far off topic, but West Side Cycle was one of my favorite haunts. Catch Ralph on the right day and he would let me go in the back and look at all the "chopper take off parts"
Tanks and fenders hanging from the rafters and shelves full of old stuff.
Found good parts for my WLA and 48 pan. The best thing about that old shop was the smell...a mixture of rubber,drain oil and gasoline..it was great!

I drove by there just the other day. The neighborhood is changed, and the old shop is now a beauty salon...bet it doesn't smell the same!!! Rod

[20scout]

A few years ago I was on my way to Wasseon and stopped in a rest area just north of Minneapolis. There was a guy on a HD 45 with a home made hack. He too was on his way to Wasseon in a round-about way. Seems he started in North Carolina and was on his way back from Alaska! He was traveling very light, infact I seen more stuff for his dog in the hack than I did for him. He did say that even tho his bike was very reliable (only had to replace two light bulbs the hole trip!?!?), he said he wished it was a bit faster accross North Dakota (you take that for what ever it's worth). Since he didn't have an accurate odomiter, he estimated that he would have 8-10,000 miles on by the time he got home. Apparently his secret was not to be in too big of a hurry. I was sure that the club would have done up an artical on him but no such luck. Never did hear any more about him, wonder if he ever made it home or did he extend his trip?
TR

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by Rod K
Hope I'm not too far off topic, but West Side Cycle was one of my favorite haunts. Catch Ralph on the right day and he would let me go in the back and look at all the "chopper take off parts"
Tanks and fenders hanging from the rafters and shelves full of old stuff.
Found good parts for my WLA and 48 pan. The best thing about that old shop was the smell...a mixture of rubber,drain oil and gasoline..it was great!

I drove by there just the other day. The neighborhood is changed, and the old shop is now a beauty salon...bet it doesn't smell the same!!! Rod

When I saw you remembered West Side Cycle I was going to ask you about the special SMELL in the place but you did first!!!!

It's true, when you walked in there it sort of knocked you in the face but it was just perfectly right for a cycle shop. I don't recall any other shops smelling like that. It sort of reminded me of U.S. Army bore cleaner....

We were from Racine so didn't really hang out there, but would go up when we needed a special part or when touring Milw. bike shops. Milw. H-D was right down the street.

Remember when Ralph had stock old knuckleheads for sale on his sales floor as raw chopper material for $350?

From West Side I remember buying those reverse parts for a 45, a front fender for a Panhead, some brake clevis parts, and a Knucklehead repair book (the one with John Nowak's hands in it).

Yeah, the stuff hanging from the rafters and old knucklehead heads piled up next to the widow on the parking lot side along with the smell. New chopper parts in the showcase. Ralphie was always nice. Prices not bad either. I think I paid 8 bucks for that fender. He even asked me: "Is that too much?"

Many years later I tracked Ralphie down and interviewed him. He told me that he hated the cigerette smell that smokers filled the shop with. Put in a ventilation fan. I wonder if the solventy smell wasn't meant to help cover up the cigarette smell that he hated?

RIP Ralph Heger

[Rub]

For years I bought lots of parts from Ralph through the mail. I never met him or saw the shop. The best part of it was his letters. I even saved a bunch of them since they were so entertaining. He only ever wrote on used paper, be it junk mail, someone else's letter, ads torn out of magazines, whatever. The text was around the margins and between lines.The envelopes too which usually had someones business card taped over the window and my address on the back. A real character and much missed! Robbie

[Jack K]

Can't help you with the fair market value of a sidecar, but I can tell you a little about pulling one with a 45. I've got a 49 WL hooked to a 47 LE chassis. It does just fine for what I use it for. That would be taking the grandkids for rides, going to the grocery store for the wife, and regular trips the beer store.

I live in a rural area and the farm-to-market roads around me are lightly traveled so I'm not pushed by a lot of highspeed traffic.
The brackets to mount this rig are, of course, homemade and the body is too. While the body looks much like a Harley body, it is shorter, narrower, and lighter. Also, had to trim a couple inches off the bottom of the front fender, but since the fender was ripped and torn there, that didn't concern me. Another issue was the kick starter arm. I was lucky enough to find a Servi-car transmission and shifter gate to match and traded the solo gear box and gate for it. This gave me a reverse and an extended spocket cover/kicker shaft. I put a 26 tooth engine spocket on the thing and can cruise at 50 mph, 55 if I'm in a hurry. Top speed is just over 65.

It does struggle if the head winds get over 15-20 mph and under 30 mph she will head shake if you don't screw the damper down.
All and all, it does what I wanted it to do.

Oh, sometime back I ran one afternoon with a friend on a JD with a hack and I was surprised that I could pull all but the steepest grades right with him.

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by Rub
For years I bought lots of parts from Ralph through the mail. I never met him or saw the shop. The best part of it was his letters. I even saved a bunch of them since they were so entertaining. He only ever wrote on used paper, be it junk mail, someone else's letter, ads torn out of magazines, whatever. The text was around the margins and between lines.The envelopes too which usually had someones business card taped over the window and my address on the back. A real character and much missed! Robbie

Robbie:

I never knew that Ralph did a mail order business.

Could you please tell us what sort of entertaining things he wrote in those letters? I'm glad you saved them!

I'm curious because many years later when I looked Raphie up (mid-90s) he was retired and living on Milwaukee's north side across from Timmerman Airport. We sat outside and I interviewed him that one time. He indeed told good stories and I put some of them in my 1930-41 book. He was still selling a few parts at swapmeets at that time; mostly little Harley stuff. The Big Twin and 45 stuff was mostly gone. He gave a pretty good history of his years in business.

His health wasn't too good and I don't know how long he lasted after that. Later somebody told me he passed away.

[Lonnie]

The guy on the 45 with the sidecar was David Justice from Bat Cave, NC. Dog is named Yellow Dog (fits, wouldn't you say?). And as you state, he traveled from there to Alaska and back home! He didn't have any reliability problems with the rig except he kept shearing the rivets on the sprocket - after several rounds of that I would think the holes were oversize and I would guess that contributed to the problem. His car was a Goulding reproduction on a fabricated square tube frame - tracked very well.

He replaced all the sprocket rivets in Wauseon and they lasted until he got back to Bat Cave where they sheared again as he began the steep climb up the mountain to his house!

Speed was not an issue.........downhill.

Lonnie

[20scout]

Thanks Lonnie! I had always wondered what ever happened. He told me that he had blowen a light blub and wanted to know if someone at Waseon might have some as he was on his spare. He also said that he had done some minor work on the road but I didn't realise that it was a sproket. Overall a minor issue concidering all the miles he put on. I thought the tub on the hack was a Goulding but I knew the rest was fabricated (nice job of it and the gaffitii on the tub was priceless too). Would still like to hear the whole story as he seamed to be quite an interesting guy and it was a remarkable venture. Guys like him could inspire others to try stuff like that. Thanks for the update.
Regards,
TR

P.S. Sorry but I don't ever recall hearing what the dogs name was.