Cannonball Stealth Starter

[D.A.Bagin]

I had the Cannonball installed on my bike after seeing 2 of our local chapter members with them with no issues.. I went to the same person to install mine as a present to myself. First time, after getting the bike back, I rode about 25 or so miles, parked it at a VFW to go inside and have a drink. After taking off my jacket and walking to the door I looked back to see my bike engulfed in smoke coming from under the solo seat. After raising the seat through the noxious fumes and with the aid of a pair of channelocks I ripped what was left of the battery out. When the remains hit the ground they burst into flames. Needless to say it was quite exciting. I returned the bike to the installer who said he never had that happen. He "fixed everything" and assured all was well. I was leaving for the sunshine meet the same day and off I went. After taking the first ride ride of about 25 miles I parked in the middle of downtown Deland. My friend nd I went around the corner to get something to eat. We sat inside and after maybe 15 mins. a gentleman in a dark blue shirt comes in and is looking around at all the tables. He sees us, quickly comes over and asks, Do you guys have the old bikes outside??" We say yes and he says, " Well, one of them is on fire." I raise my hand and calmly say, "That's mine." Well, talk about excitement imagine main street Deland awash in police and a firetruck about 60 feet long. Every fireman or police officer as I passed by would say, "Your bike?" "Yup" "Man I'm sorry" they would reply. Well, no more damage than the first time so all is as good as it could be. Pretty much french-fried everything under the seat. I will say one thing, the police and the firemen in Deland were fantastic. The didn't tow the bike, they gave me a ride 25 miles to pick up my trailer, Escorted me back and stopped all traffic on the main drag so I could pick up my bike. Talk about a great experience after a bad one. I asked why they did all that and they said, We just saw you had a bad day. We can only try to make it a little better. Now to the end. After returning home and returning the bike to the installer what we needed to do was get a certain C.E. generator with a certain regulator to solve the problem. After the change it has been fine. You need to get used to the generator cycling the charge to the battery to avoid overcharging. Your genny light comes on every so often to avoid this. That's my story with witnesses, pics and a video from Deland of it spewing it's fumes on the passer-bys. All has been great since. I love it.

[1970 XLCH]

To D.A.Bagin , Sorry to hear about all the crap you went through !
Were you using the recommended Antigravity 1201 battery ?
And I take it from your story that you weren't using the Cycle Electric " L " generator ?
I am installing one now and wish to avoid all that crap !!
If you watch the youtube video on Antigravity batteries , they say that they are made out of much better materials than the " hover boards " & other devices that we have all seen on fire but who knows ?
Glad to hear that it is working well now .
Regards, Mike

[Cam]

Has anyone installed/used the Cannonball Stealth Starter advertised on page 9 of the most recent club magazine? Wondering about workmanship and how well it works. Also, is there a 12 volt battery available that will fit in the stock battery location ( for 40s-50s big twin) that will power the starter?

WWAG recently updated their warnings regarding these starters and I can say without a doubt they updated them for a very specific reason: if the bike kicks back when trying to start manually the odds are high that you'll have a mess of broken gears on your hands after installing this particular starter… I believe they could (eventually) improve the design to prevent this from happening, but as of this writing (to my understanding) they have not. This particular starter only works well with low compression and no kick back.

48Flatty - I've installed the Cannonball Stealth Starter 2 different bikes. One of them was successful. The other one was not. As you can imagine, I have mixed feelings about them. They've recently updated their warnings and I can say without a doubt those warnings are there for a very specific reason: if the bike kicks back when trying to start manually the odds are high that you'll have a mess of broken gears on your hands after installing this particular starter. I'll recap both experiences - hopefully the information will help.

Successful install was/is on a 1950 panhead. I've been running the Cannonball Stealth Starter on this bike for a little over a year now without any complaints.

The frame for this bike is a Tripoli frame based on stock dimensions. I did not need to cut into the rear fender for clearance, I did need to shave a little material away from the oil bag support bracket (horseshoe oil bag) to provide proper movement of the clutch lever (not enough room for travel/movement without the modification - has the required clearance with modification). I do not suspect this will be a common issue - likely a one-off due to this particular frame... no other modifications made other than this: for battery I jumped into the lithium dilemma without fully being aware of what I was getting into - it wasn't until after I ordered the Antigravity 16 cell battery and read the same warning sign that Mike (@1970 XLCH) mentioned that I realized the problem with putting that particular battery inside a horseshoe oil bag.

After reading that warning, I started digging for information and trying to sort out a feasible work-around. I contacted Antigravity and discussed the issue with them - they confirmed there is a concern if the battery goes above 140F. We discussed airflow and options for keeping the battery cool. They confirmed that if the battery was positioned/installed in a way (inside the horseshoe oil bag) that would maintain air flow that housing it inside could work. Not wanting to give up on using the same oil bag, I started crunching numbers, using as reference the max oil operating temp of 250F.

I ended up building a battery holder that contains both the 16 cell lithium battery & a fan. The fan is directly underneath the battery and blows air up and around when the bike is running. Separate switch for turning it on/off. I generally leave it on. I also lined the inside of the oil bag with a 3/16” thick heat shield (10 mil aluminum bonded to 1/8” glass fiber core). Might also be good to note that I'm running the stock generator, Franks regulator, and the starter relay as provided (and updated/replaced) by WWAG. [The starter relay they provide is of mammoth proportions compared to a standard HD relay... I'd be curious if anyone has used a standard one with/without issues...?]

For testing, I was (until it disappeared when riding through Montana) using a temp/thermometer gun to get readings off the oil bag and the battery. Temp of the battery seemed to be pretty stable. The area though where I’ve been riding hits a max ambient temp of about 90 deg F. I have no idea if it’ll maintain in areas that have traditionally higher (aka 3 digit) temps.

The unsuccessful install was on a knucklehead with 8:1 compression, magneto, & hydraulic clutch. The first starter failed on the first attempt to start the bike. Inspecting the housing, gears, etc indicated there was a manufacturing flaw that caused the failure. WWAG concurred with the assessment and provided a replacement. The second starter made it through 5 starts before failing. Similar manufacturing issues were found on disassembly but this particular bike is also notorious for some serious kickback when manually starting.

See below for a sample pic of what we found on disassembly of the first starter that failed. There is no bushing/bearing for the gear interface to the housing. This is (IMO) an area where the starter could be improved. On the first starter, there were signs of improper manufacturing/assembly with FOB (foreign object debris) between the gear and where it presses into the housing, along with score marks internal to the bore hole that indicated the gear was originally installed at an angle & what appears to have been a binding condition.

Cannonball_Stealth_Starter.jpg



So now I’m looking at two more bikes for electric start mods and debating on which way to go… I have to say even though I’ve only had one successful install with this starter so far… and have seen the horror (twice) of it blowing up… I’m still tempted to use the WWAG starter for the next builds but would only do so on bikes with low compression and no kick back. And I wouldn’t use the lithium battery - instead I’d go with using a modified horseshoe oil bag (either have one fabbed or pick up the one that’s put out by RSES (Right Side Electric Start) that can house a 12v, 300+ CCA battery) or I’d use the police oil bag as pan620 mentioned. I’ve seen some pics of what he's done and it appears to be a pretty simple/nice set up.

I am also curious to know if there's a 12V 300+ CCA battery out there that'll fit within the original horseshoe oil bag... I haven't found one but keep hoping.

For the knuckle, it’s now getting Tech Cycle’s starter. With a little luck the gremlins are on vacation and it’ll be up and running soon.

[D.A.Bagin]

I don't know about the battery, maybe I should and will. I did not do the install. I've owned the bike, a 58, over 50 yrs. and all that time it was a 1 or 50 kicks to start it no matter what. My 57, one kick, my Indians, one kick, but my first bike......One thing is on a swing arm bike you lose the adjustment bolt at the end of the tranny plate. Use a repop plate if that is what you have frame wise. You have to cut that off on a early swing-arm frame. I still haven't had to adjust my primary chain but there is VERY little space for tensioning the primary between the unit and the frame, maybe1/4 inch. Looks like it will be fun. Maybe mine is stretched out a bit. Hey, if it was easy everyone would do it.

[1970 XLCH]

D.A. Bagin , Loved the 1 or 50 kicks no matter what !!!!! I've had my '49 since 1978 and it is the SAME WAY !! I've got an email into W&W , asking them to read what everyone has said here . I will let you know what there response is . Mike

[1970 XLCH]

To Cam , What fan did you use ? I'm seeing 70 X 70 mm fans , but having a tough time finding a waterproof one . Thanks, Mike

[1970 XLCH]

By the way , W&W said that " they would tell the manufacturer to read these posts " & they would get back to me . Nothing yet !!

[duffeycycles]

Pan620 has a great idea to use police oil tank with side mount AGM battery.As for kickback that can kill any starter system & must be fixed.

[RichO]

I've haven't had any problems on my '40 Knuckle which is still tank shift and foot clutch since I installed a Tech Cycle unit somewhere between 5 and 10 years ago. I also run a CE 65A generator W/32E end cap and a electronic regulator in the old 6 volt relay. I run a sealed FX battery in a soft tail styled horse shoe oil bag. I made my own clutch arm as the starter sits where that used to. Belt drive primary of course. Still tin inner and outer. I parkerized and painted most of the parts black so you have to look close to see it has a button starter. kicks still there for backup. i will say that Tech Cycle made it for the mouse trap style setup but it was easily modified.

[Cam]

1970 XLCH The fan I used is/was Wathai 9225 92mm x 25mm 12V 2Pin Dual Ball Bearing DC Brushless Cooling case Fan

It's for refrigerator applications & apparently it's not weather proof per the Q&A (Amazon states dry applications). I haven't though had any issues with it (I live in a traditionally rainy area - out in more than one flash flood since installing). The oil bag and support 'cage' kind of limit the amount of area that's exposed. If you do find one that's weather proof I'd be interested in the details/specs.

(PS --> Just ran a search on Amazon for a 92mm water proof fan - a couple different options popped up that look to be viable & weather resistant)

[Cam]

RichO ... can you share pics of the soft tail style horse shoe oil bag and how it's mounted? Any modifications to the inner/outer tins other than cutting access for the Tech Cycle starter? Also curious about the modification needed to account for tank shift...

[RichO]

Cam, I'm sorry but I'm an old gray beard and technically challenged. I don't post photos. Wish I could cause I've got some beauties. Anyway the tankshift arm and rod back to the jockey top are stock. Yes, the rear of the inside tin is trimmed to clear the ring gear. The oil bag is the first center fill that Tech Cycle ever made. It looks like it's similar to a soft tail one but I've never compared them. It mounts like a stock horseshoe bag to the fender, seat post, and primary cover. It did take a little bit of work though. Spacers, etc. It uses an FX battery that I made a cover for that looks like a stock horseshoe bag cover w/ side bolts and wingnuts. The clutch arm is the tricky part but not to bad. Theirs wouldn't work because it was for a mouse trap so I cut the end that fits over the shaft coming out the top of the transmission side cover (for the throwout bearing) and welded a 1/2 or 5/8 inch rod to it so it cleared the front of the shifter drum hump and had enough swing for the rocker clutch (full) movement and the proper up and out like stock. I made sure it was long enough for proper alignment to the rocker clutch. I used a stock adjustable rod. I drilled, slotted, and countersunk the backside of the new clutch arm to receive it like stock. Sounds complicated but it's wasn't. Just a little homework.I hope this helps. I use a circuit breaker between battery and starter and relay (standard Bosch) for the handlebar button. I hope this helps.P.S. I also run a generator shovel timer with an early cap because it has self advance. You have to look hard to see it's a button bike. It's a 1940 El bob job except for that. Rich

[Cam]

RichO Got it - ok that makes sense Thanks for the clarification and no worries about photos = your description filled in all the blanks!

[sswaney]

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[sswaney]

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