Originally posted by jug
View Post
Mike Love
-
The frame was another story..... It took a hard hit, bending in a number of places. The neck was twisted quite a bit, plus pushed over to the right side. The front frame bolt hole did not align to the motor mount, the seat post was bent and the rear axle plates were squeezed together a bit. In addition, the top and bottom tank tubes were curved to the right. Using a similar process, and long pry bars we were able to get things pretty straight and the neck and tail are all in the right positions.
Frame jig.jpg
bent frame.jpg
Straight frame.jpg
Stewart and Alex.jpg
Leave a comment:
-
Jug,
Stewart is doing well. He will need some further surgery to repair the right leg which has not healed correctly. However, he is still able to get around pretty well with the help of a cane or walker if he is about for a long time.
All but Hans in So. Africa were able to meet up in Chicago at Alex's shop last week. Stewart brought his frame and forks from Canada. I brought my frame and fork fixtures and we were able to get everything straightened out. He is back home now and will proceed with getting the X back together again.
Stewart with fork 2-23.jpg
Stewart with the main fork in the fixture. The fork was tweaked, but not very bad.
Stewart fork 2.jpg
This is the spring fork, it was bent quite a bit but came back nicely.
Both of these pictures show the forks held in the fixture before heating. With some prying, we were able to get the axle pin in place. Then using the nuts we spread the forks to the correct dimensions, each fork has a different width at the rocker pins. Once in the correct position and secured, we heated the tubes in the area where they were bent to a nice orange color and then let them air cool. Once cool, everything is released and it all stays in the right position.
Leave a comment:
-
Just read the story in the March- April mag. Great job Alex. After I talked to you guys in Dubuque I told a buddy about the trip and he said where did you find out. I said join AMCA. Is Stewart and bike doing o.k.?Leave a comment:
-
Well stated, Steve, and thanks, Gene for giving us an update on Stewart. I think we've all been thinking, and praying for his recovery and it looks like it's paying off. I have to say that I have been guilty of assuming a throttle cable is securely anchored, but when I think of the many questionable OEM cable clamps on all makes, I know I'll be doing some belt, and suspender work on my bikes. Hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving with family, friends, or a motorcycle.Originally posted by Steve Swan View PostLeave a comment:
-
Thanks Gene, for posting an update on Stewart. I don't know Stewart, but i followed you fellows' travels throughout your travels. Anytime a fellow rider goes down, even more so when riding a grand old motorcycle, i wish both man and machine the speediest recovery possible. That being said, it is great to see Stewart standing unassisted by his X. Stewart, if you see this, may your recovery continue forward uncomplicated and to the very best that 2023 has to bring each and all.Originally posted by gharper View PostLeave a comment:
-
This is a good time to elaborate on what caused Stewarts crash on day 5 of our ride. Hopefully others can learn from these details and avoid a similar disaster! Stewart is the second friend I know that had a similar situation that locked the throttle in a wide open position and resulted in a horrible crash. Doug Rollert learned this lesson years ago on his beautiful 23 Deluxe.
This applies directly to all late teens-mid 28 Henderson and 20-mid 28 Excelsior machines but the general concept of tending the throttle cable applies to all motorcycles!
The Schwinn design used an external throttle cable setup, meaning it was not fed through the hollow handlebar. The solid cable slid through a coiled wire housing. I believe this was referred to as the Bowden Cable, patented by a man by that name. Correct operation requires both ends of the coiled wire housing to be securely fastened at both ends at all times. If either end can move, throttle cable action is reduced, or lost all together. Schwinn used a big clamp on the handlebar cross bar to hold the housing in place and a series of small clips along the way to attach the housing to the frame. The wire cable was attached to the twisting tube on the handlebar with a small ball and socket, allowing a universal swivel if you will for alignment. This wire attachment also has a long threaded tube screwed on the end which slid over the wire casing to aid in alignment and protect the wire from dirt and damage. With the throttle fully closed, this tube should almost touch the clamp. Here is a closeup shot of the setup on my 24 X, this is in the fully closed position. Note the sliding tube is very close to the clamp:
Throttle cable 1.jpg
With the throttle fully open, the sliding tube still covers the casing, keeping things aligned and protected properly.
Throttle cable at frame.jpg
This is where the casing is attached to the frame neck. Hendersons are setup exactly the same up to this point. The only difference comes at the carburetor end which is less important.
Here is the problem...... In Doug Rollert's case, he used a reproduction cable housing which was a smaller OD. While attempting a tight U turn on a side street, It allowed the cable to suddenly slide through the frame clip when the handlebars were turned all the way to the left. This pulled the throttle wide open and his foot slipped off the foot clutch and launched him into a parked truck. This sent him to the hospital for major surgery and bent the forks, fender, wheel and frame.
In Stewarts case, the 2 screws on the handlebar clamp loosened up just enough to allow the casing to be pulled through, perhaps a little bit each time the throttle was opened quickly. As time went on, the distance between the clamp and the sliding tube increased. In addition, there may have been a slight misalignment in the location of the clamp, giving a slight curve to the housing. We suspect that as Stewart crested a steep hill in Kentucky with the throttle near wide open, he shut it off abruptly when the sharp curve appeared just after the crest. The excess cable suddenly bunched up and made a loop between the clamp and the sliding tube, locking the throttle in a near wide open position. The rest is history. Here are pictures of Stewarts setup after the crash. The casing could be slid through the clamp with little effort. Granted, the handlebars are busted off and bent, but the loop was clearly locked in place. All the other clamps were tight, so this had to be the culprit.
Throttle cable kink 2.jpg
Throttle cable kink 4.jpg
Throttle cable kink 3.jpg
You can see from the last picture there is way too much cable housing exposed between the end of the sliding tube and the clamp, allowing a nasty kink in the housing, locking the throttle open.
So, CHECK YOUR CABLES!
1. Be sure all the clamps are TIGHT and will hold the casing properly. Some reproduction casings are a smaller OD so the clamps must be modified to properly hold the casing!
2. Be sure the sliding tube is as close to the handlebar clamp as possible with the throttle fully closed. Any excess housing showing is a recipe for disaster!
3. Be sure the swivel joint and tube are aligned properly to allow the sliding tube to easily slide over the casing with perfect straight alignment. Simply rotating the handlebar clamp will do the trick.
4. CHECK THE SCREWS REGULARLY to be sure they are TIGHT. Use loctite on them as well!
You can be sure we examined our setups immediately after Hans discovered the cause of Stewarts crash!
In theory, this applies to other machines as well. The cable housing must remain tight at all times, especially at the handlebar end!
Leave a comment:
-
Our friend Stewart is home now and doing well! The text below is from a message he recently sent to our Lindbergh Ride group on Whatts App. We used this app to share details of our restoration progress. It was a great tool for us and allowed unlimited text, pictures and phone calls to So. Africa, all for free. Whats App is an arm of Facebook, so I'll give credit for that anyway even though I'm not a fan of Facebook!
Stewart is shown here with both of his grandfathers bikes, his 21 Big X and the 1930(?) KJ Henderson. He has a great story on the family X which you can find on page 2 of this thread. Amazing to me t hat his grandfather lived in Canada most of his adult like and never owned a car!
Stewart at home!.jpeg
Well folks with the help of family and friends we managed to get the Excelsior and its younger cousin into my heated work shed in the back yard. Mushing the bike through the snow helped wash off some of the Kentucky dirt, but not all of it. I only have about 1/2 of my stuff back from my brother's place and I'll get the rest back Tuesday. The stuff I have unpacked I can tell Bill Maron or Gene Harper packed it all up as every void is filled, shoes, helmets and such. I'm amazed you got 10 pounds of stuff to fit into a 5 pound space. Well done, and once again, thank you all. I can now slowly start on the Ex. Some of the simple parts to replace I already have on hand. I'll let you know how the rest of it goes. I realize it may not look like I'm smiling in the picture, but I can assure you I'm smiling big on the inside. Cheers! Stewart
We have been discussing preliminary plans to meet up in Chicago at Alex's shop sometime this winter or spring. I'll bring my frame and fork fixtures and we can straighten things out and make repairs where needed. From there, it's back together and hopefully the Maclellan X will be on the road again soon.Leave a comment:
-
Gene, My four Knuckles (over fifty plus years) have all been EL's 61"ers' They're quick out of the hole but do not have the torque on long hard pulling hills so one must drop a gear. I'm sure as the bikes got bigger, more weight and equipment that's why the 74" and the 80". Now they're just plain huge (114"). My Super X and 101 Scout I geared in the middle. They would pull the hills O.K.only dropping to second near the top with some retard and throttle near the stop. It did hurt to get a run at it either. They would do O.K. on the flat too. If you geared for the hills they fell on their face on the flat and if you geared for the flat they fell back on the hills. It was a compromise. Those were only 45" with small flywheels and low compression. Only a few gear selections were available. Great work on the prep, the trip, and the documentation there of. It's true, "Excelsior always makes good". RichLeave a comment:
-
[QUOTE=knucklehead 61;n304322]
Steve, I made all 3,389 miles on the 21 cannonball with one front & one rear chain on my 25JD. typically riding at 58mph. I didn't have to touch the bike on the road (just the typical nightly maintenance) until the second to last day when a transmission stud pulled out & all the oil drained out coming into a gas stop. I plan to ride it again in the next cannonball. but will be taking it slower after reading all of Gene's posts here about speed related issues.[/QUOTE
Knucklehead61, Thanks for the reply! I'm interested to hear about your JD running at 58 mph all day! My X would be screaming at that speed, so, what was your gear ratio? I was at 4.12/1, the other guys were 4.13/1. The X is 61" with bore and stroke almost the same, so "square" and won't pull big hills well below 45 mph, then it takes off above that! In fact, in Colorado it was struggling on some of the winding mountain roads at low speeds unless I was in 2nd gear a lot. The 61" motor was new to me, I've always ridden 74" motors with sidecar gearing, so they pull hills like crazy. The 61 is a whole different power curve, it wants to wind up but not very torquey at lower RPM under load. If I'm correct, your JD is a 74", totally different beast with lots of torque. I did the 2018 Cannonball on the 24 Big Chief (74") and it was geared 4.65/1 with 45-48 as the sweet spot. I'm convinced that bike would run 60 all day, easily, if I took off the sidecar and geared it tall, it has a lot of torque but flattens out quickly on the top end. I'm curious about guys that run 61"J's. We used +.020 EL pistons in our motors to bump compression by 20% and a cam with more lift which also accentuated the top end power but the cam definitely didn't help low end so much!Leave a comment:
-
Knuck61, thanks for your reply. i have a '27 JD i built and ride with nice engine goodies, now have 1,400 completely trouble-free miles logged since finishing build Oct.2020. As i don't want to put non-X stuff in Gene's thread, you can see my build at >>> https://forum.antiquemotorcycle.org/...n-project-swanOriginally posted by knucklehead 61 View PostLeave a comment:
-
Steve, I made all 3,389 miles on the 21 cannonball with one front & one rear chain on my 25JD. typically riding at 58mph. I didn't have to touch the bike on the road (just the typical nightly maintenance) until the second to last day when a transmission stud pulled out & all the oil drained out coming into a gas stop. I plan to ride it again in the next cannonball. but will be taking it slower after reading all of Gene's posts here about speed related issues.Originally posted by Steve Swan View PostLast edited by knucklehead 61; 10-20-2022, 12:35 AM.Leave a comment:
-
Gene, thank you for your in depth review covering features of the Big X's, how they ran down the road, reasons for the chain wear and what was involved with adjusting a front chain contrasted with replacement. i am really looking forward to hearing more about other things you ran into along the way. I followed your posts daily and couldn't help but feel a sense of elation for you guys with the machines running so successfully as each day became more rewarding than the day before. Those X's are grand old machines. Congratulations on a successful trip that has lifetime memories intertwined with the stories from an earlier era of one of aviation's greatest pioneers.Leave a comment:
-
I have many things I'd like to share about the ride, just haven't gotten to them yet.....
Overall, I would say the Big X is a great machine! I was amazed at how well they ran and just got better. Yes, we spent a LOT of time building them and setting things up right, maybe better than original in some ways. Don't forget though that EVERYTHING was worn out and needed worked over.
With that said though, there are 3 major weaknesses that caused all of us a lot of grief. Number 1 is the primary chain situation. I would say that if the primary chain wasn't such an issue it would have saved all of us a couple hours maintenance every night. Adjusting that chain would take at least an hour, if there were no interruptions, which there always were! Once the primary chain was adjusted, then the rear chain, inner and outer brakes, foot clutch, hand clutch, shifter lever, shifter lock and compression release all needed to be adjusted and many of those adjustments are intertwined with the other so there is a sequence that these things need to be done in. In order to make these adjustments, the primary cover had to come off, as did the right side kicker cover, then a series of bolts and fasteners loosened and tightened in order to get the right tension. Number 2 I would say was the transmission lubrication system and trying to keep the lube inside the gearbox. The third is the clutch which is a bit quirky, with a set of double throw-out bearings, a poor lubrication system and a worn carrier bearing. However, mine seemed to settle down after about 1000 miles but was a source of constant worry.
Alex has shed some light on the chain situation, all of which I agree with. I would add to that by saying there are many issues that contribute to the chain wear. The primary chain is very short, about 52 links. Distance between centers is about 7 ", much less than the Harley. The motor sprocket is small at 15 teeth. These 2 factors cause the chain to travel very fast, especially at higher RPM. These fast chain speeds tend to throw any lube off pretty quickly. In addition, the clutch sprockets are not replaceable and were all worn to some degree but we did have new engine sprockets which seemed to show virtually no wear. The lubrication system is very poor for the chain, almost non existent really, unless the engine is heavily overoiling, which makes a huge mess of everything! I was aware that the X eats primary chains after talking to the few guys that ran them on the Cannonball. They all had issues, regardless of what chain they used! Mike Jensen just decided to replace the chain every day! It was much easier to do that than adjust them every day! In an effort to avoid some of these issues I set mine up with a 17 tooth motor sprocket whereas the other guys all ran a 15. I did have a larger rear at 35 tooth which gave the same overall gear ratio. This may have helped some, but not really noticeable. Perhaps the biggest reason though is that we simply ran these things a lot faster than they were designed to run on a continuous basis. For a few days we bumped our cruising speed up from 45 to 50 mph. My bike was quite happy at either speed and actually seemed to like 47-48 mph best. After a few days of this, Hans (always the engineer) suggested we scale back to 45 to reduce wear and fatigue on parts and fasteners, which we did. I have to say, that one change made the biggest difference in chain wear! Also vibration settled down a bit and the bikes were just not working as hard and seemed quite happy. I replaced my first primary chain at about 1500 miles, since restoration. Many of these miles were at slower break in speeds however. The second chain barely lasted 1000 miles and this covered the 50 mph spells. That chain was trashed! Rusty, kinks, tight and loose all over and very noisy! I'm on chain #3 now which has about 1100 miles on it and will probably need replaced soon. On my long drive home I was trying to figure out in my head how to fit a belt drive to the primary and avoid these problems. I decided that unless I do this again, it's probably not worth the effort, chains are pretty cheap....
Steve, to answer your question about an O ring chain: There simply isn't room between the chain and the inner primary cover at the rear, or the generator drive pulley which is attached to the back of the engine sprocket, to fit one in there. Stewart had one fitted and within a few hundred miles discovered that the wider chain damaged the belt groove section of the generator drive pulley. He was forced to go with a standard chain and file all the deep dimples out of the pulley groove which was made by the wider pins and was tearing up his generator belt.
Interestingly, we all ran the same rear chains as we had on the front. The rear required occasional adjustment but overall, very little. The differences in design here are huge, which added to this longevity. The rear chain is twice the length, all sprockets were new, the chain speed is about half that of the primary, so lube was more inclined to stay in place. The rear chain would easily last 10,000 miles or more.
The gearbox and clutch are other issues all together...... I'll have to save those for other posts, along with tires, throttle cable setup, exposed rocker arms and pushrods........Leave a comment:
-
Stewart is still in a rehab facility in Canada, very near his home and making good progress. I spoke with him a few days ago and it was going well, but slow. Rehab is pushing him but it sounds like he is pushing himself even harder! Still lots of swelling in the right leg which is hampering the rehab somewhat. He sounds good and is looking forward to getting home, which is scheduled for this Friday!
Leave a comment:
Leave a comment: