Antique registration in Pennsylvania

[charlie frey]

This is a situation that I think our club members should know about.
I have an original paint '64 FLH that I just tried to get "antique" tags for in PA.
I was denied because the saddlebags and gas tanks have some scratches.
They said the bike should be restored.
Even after re-applying with a long letter explaining the value of un-restored, original machines, I was denied again.
I'm sure that they have no idea what an original machine looks like, and if I covered it with chrome, flashy paint and Chinese parts, I'd have no problem.
What a shame that these originals are just treated like rats.

[KDR]

Here's the rules:

Authority

The provisions of this Chapter 67 issued under the Vehicle Code, 75 Pa.C.S. § § 1340 and 6103, unless otherwise noted.



Source

The provisions of this Chapter 67 adopted November 9, 1984, effective November 10, 1984, 14 Pa.B. 4064; readopted December 8, 1989, effective December 9, 1989 and applies retroactively to November 10, 1989, 19 Pa.B. 5216, unless otherwise noted.

§ 67.1. Purpose.
This chapter establishes procedures governing the issuance and use of antique and classic registration plates and facilitates the enforcement of section 1340 of the act (relating to antique and classic plates).

§ 67.2. Definitions.
The following words and terms, when used in this chapter, have the following meanings, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise:

Act—75 Pa.C.S. § § 101—9910 (relating to the Vehicle Code).

Antique motor vehicle—A motor vehicle, but not a reproduction thereof, manufactured more than 25 years prior to the current year, which has been maintained in or restored to a condition which is substantially in conformance with manufacturer specifications.

Classic motor vehicle—A self-propelled vehicle, but not a reproduction thereof, manufactured more than 10 years prior to the current year and because of discontinued production and limited availability, determined by the Department to be a model or make of significant value to collectors or exhibitors, and which has been maintained in or restored to a condition which is substantially in conformance with manufacturer specifications and appearance.

Department—The Department of Transportation of the Commonwealth.

§ 67.3. Application for antique or classic registration plates.
(a) Application. Application for antique or classic registration plates shall be made on forms issued by the Department.

(b) Supplemental documents. The application shall be accompanied by four color photographs—front, rear and both sides—of the vehicle for which the application is being submitted. The photographs shall be clear and the condition of the vehicle easily ascertainable from them. The photographs shall be submitted in accordance with instructions provided by the Department.

(c) Additional information required for classic vehicles. If a vehicle is to be registered as a classic, the applicant may be required to provide the Department with documentation that one or more of the following conditions has been met:

(1) The production of the particular make or model has been discontinued.

(2) The vehicle was manufactured as a limited edition or is otherwise of limited availability.

(3) The vehicle is of a model or make that is of significant value to collectors or exhibitors.

(4) The vehicle is substantially in conformance with manufacturer specifications and appearance so as to qualify for participation in organized club activities, exhibits, tours and parades.

(d) Other means of transportation. An applicant for antique or classic registration shall maintain regular registration on another motor vehicle for personal transportation. If the registration is not maintained the applicant shall sign an affidavit indicating the type of transportation that he uses on a regular basis.

§ 67.4. Change from classic to antique registration.
When a registered classic vehicle becomes of age to qualify for antique registration, the owner may apply for an antique registration plate by submitting the appropriate Departmental form and the registration fee.

§ 67.5. Fee exemptions not applicable.
Exemptions under section 1901 of the act (relating to exemption of entities and vehicles from fees) do not apply to antique and classic vehicle registration fees.

§ 67.6. Use of antique and classic registration plates.
No person may operate a vehicle with antique or classic registration plates for commercial purposes or for general daily transportation. Permitted use is limited to participation in club activities, exhibits, tours, parades and similar uses, and for occasional transportation. Occasional transportation means no more than 1 day a week.

§ 67.7. Expiration and transfer of antique and classic registration plates.
(a) Registration period. Both antique and classic registration plates are valid for the life of the vehicle as long as owned by the same owner. If the owner sells the vehicle, the plates remain with the owner and may be used on another qualified vehicle, upon payment of proper registration and title fees.

(b) Conveyance of registration plate. The seller of a registered antique or classic vehicle may authorize the buyer to use the same plate. The buyer shall forward the seller’s letter authorizing the use of the plate to the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, along with other appropriate documents and fees when applying for title and registration of the vehicle. The buyer shall pay the full registration fee to have the plate and vehicle registered to the buyer. If ownership is transferred between spouses, or between parent and child, the plate may be transferred upon payment of the registration transfer fee. No additional antique or classic registration fee may be paid.

§ 67.8. Sanctions.
(a) Suspension and revocation. The Department may, after providing the opportunity for a hearing, suspend the classic or antique motor vehicle registration of a person who violates this chapter for a period of 1 month for a first violation and for a period of 3 months for a second or subsequent violation. The Department may revoke a classic or antique motor vehicle registration after providing the opportunity for a hearing when the Department finds, upon sufficient evidence, that the vehicle no longer qualifies for registration as a classic or antique motor vehicle.

(b) Return of classic or antique registration cards and plates upon suspension or revocation. Suspensions and revocations shall take effect on the date ordered by the Department. Upon suspension or revocation of antique or classic registration, the registrant shall return his registration plate to the Department immediately, as required by section 1376 of the act (relating to surrender of registration plates and cards upon suspension). No refund will be given and no credit will be earned toward a registration plate subsequently issued for the vehicle.

§ 67.9. Duty to return cards and plates.
The registrant shall return to the Department the classic or antique registration cards and plate if the vehicle no longer qualifies under this chapter because it has been modified or it has not been properly maintained.

[c.o.]

Sorry to hear about your trouble charlie!!! Some people just don't get it. That goes for insurance companies too I guess It would be ashame to restore a Pan like that !

[charlie frey]

I guess my bike isn't "substantially in conformance with manufacturer specifications".
I even noted in my letter to the state that the terms for "Classic" state "...specifications and appearance", while "antique" makes no mention of appearance.
But you don't get to speak to them.
They just rubber stamp it and send it back.

[inrustwetrust]

I am sorry to hear about your difficulties. Perhaps one problem may be is that you are giving the officials at DMV way too much credit. Next time hand them a picture of something like a new Schwinn bicycle or a recent Honda brochure. I have also heard that olfactory stimulation can alter one's judgement. Try stuffing a couple of hot Big Macs in your pockets and see if that turns the tide.

[LouieMCman]

How about removing the bags and take some pictures a little further away and re-apply. I would keep applying until I wore them down! I've never had any problems in Ohio with getting plates with any pictures I've sent. Good luck.

Louie

[exeric]

Beautiful motorcycle. It looks just like a bike I saw outside of a bar in Tampa, Fl many years ago. I was in college at the time and bunch of us went to this notorious bar called the Collage. One member of our group saw that particular pan dresser and helped himself to a seat on the saddle. I advised him to get off but he said he wasn't hurting anything and didn't budge. Another friend noticed a very intoxicated guy struggling to put bullets in a revolver. We pointed that out to out to our inconsiderate friend and didn't see him for the rest of evening. As for your current dilema, we love your bike, you love your bike. . . . Who care what the PA. DMV thinks.

[charlie frey]

Thanks.
I love it, too.
Wilbur the Warthog and I have been together about 15 years and done a few miles.
Normally, I wouldn't give a rat's ass about what PA thinks, but antique plates are a good thing to have here.
They're a one-shot purchase (no annual registration fee), and you don't need inspection.
I guess they don't care if the thing is safe, they just want it to shine.
Next stop, Photoshop.

[KDR]

Unfortunately, on one hand I can relate to the standards the State uses and on the other, I can relate to your anger and reasoning. You stated "They're a one-shot purchase (no annual registration fee), and you don't need inspection." This is true and can easily be taken advantage of by anyone that owns an antique/junk vehicle if there are no guidelines set.

People don't look at antique bikes the way most of us here do. When they see an old scratched up, rusty bike, to them it's just a worn out, neglected motorcycle. These people look at it as not being "(4) The vehicle is substantially in conformance with manufacturer specifications and appearance so as to qualify for participation in organized club activities, exhibits, tours and parades."

I don't think they're asking for the bike to be covered in chrome, but to be held in the standard that the factory sold the motorcycle. In your case, a few hours doing some detail work may be all it would take. You have a beautiful machine. I know I would love to have it.

Just my 02 cents

Kurt

[rousseau]

Charlie
I'm almost embarressed to tell my little story after what your state has done to you.
Last month when I went to renew the tag for my 1957 ST165 (Harley Hummer) The young girl that was waiting on me ask "Would you like to have an antique license? They are only a few dollars more" I said sure. What do I have to do? "Just fill out this form"
Five minutes and 66 dollars later I'm offically an antique.

[gerry]

Take 4 pictures of a different duo-glide and send them to the DMV. They'll never know the diference.

[charlie frey]

Originally posted by KDR
Unfortunately, on one hand I can relate to the standards the State uses and on the other, I can relate to your anger and reasoning. You stated "They're a one-shot purchase (no annual registration fee), and you don't need inspection." This is true and can easily be taken advantage of by anyone that owns an antique/junk vehicle if there are no guidelines set.


Kurt

I see what you mean, Kurt.
But, I'm also imagining bikes 10, 20, 30....60 years older.
Imagine a 'teens motorcycle in similar condition being denied "antique" status.
If they're going to be in the business of approving and denying, they should know what they're doing.
A guy I know recently got antique plates on his 1980 (!!) FXWG that is covered with chrome, non-original paint color and scheme, non-standard handlebars and risers, over-length fork tubes, etc...
But the paint sure shines!

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Don't Give Up...

Don't give up.....on registering this truly beautiful ORIGINAL vintage Harley-Davidison

Don't PhotoShop it....keep trying to get the tags honestly. You could be the one guy in Pa that can help others future registration applicants facing similiar circumstances to get their original paint bikes an Antique Plate.

Your Harley clearly meets the requirements of their own qualifying outlines. See if you can get a letter of recognition from our National Club...Send them a copy of our magazine....write your Senator....the Governor.....call out the Marines!!

In New Jersey I took 2 photos of my Sportster and submitted the form and wrote the check out.....10 days later the plate and registration was in my hands.....As it should be!! Thats why we pay Taxes! And my bikes is far from an Original paint never mind Restored.

Looks to me like a case of a one or two know nothings in that department reading to much into the first line of Rules and basing their ruling on their uninformed opinion. Which only goes to prove that opinions are like a**holes...everyone has one.

Clearly the line in that portion of the Rules should have added to it another sentance to include something like with the exception normal wear to paint as would be expected on an original machine.

Anyway...good luck and keep plugging away....Hrdly

[Magic]

I would say do what LouieMCman says or Gerry as I too recently had to resubmit for the antique tag in Pa. as they seemed to be misguided in their selections. The problems are with the personel working at this time as I've never had these problems myself before. Back up and take a pic or get a PC wiz to enhance the pic! Or take 4 of a restored one somewhere! I too like to be honest and would feel bad about the later....however Trust in Rust and Scratches, most don't understand! Only a few. You have a very nice Duo-Glide! Keep on Ridin.

[HarleyCreation]

Why not go over the heads of the clerks and write a letter directly to the head of Division of Motor Vehicles or else to your state legislator and state your case? Worth a try.