Must participate in 50+ mile ride to be judged or lose points?

[AFJ]

Re: Good point INLINE4NUT

Originally posted by RSmith
INLINE4NUT wrote -

"One other thing if you dont like the rules dont sign up!!!"

Good point INLINE4NUT.

Unfortunately, as you may have read in earlier posts above, the group did NOT mention ANYTHING about a "mandatory" ride on any Pre-registration forms that we had to fill out and send in or any pre-show informational fliers. Nothing.

We first heard about it, when a club "Official" came up to every participant, Sunday AM after the bikes were being set up for judging.

At that time, he pointed out a small box, on their judging form that had a 10 point, out of a 100, DEDUCTION listed, for NOT taking the ride on Saturday. The group "thought" everybody knew the rule. Participants were NOT notified prior to the 6 1/2 hour drive to the event.

So we had NO chance to take you up on your suggestion of, " .... if you dont like the rules .... dont sign up!!!"

That is why we began this thread and asked other veteran AMCA members the questions about this type of "requirement," last week.

Information on the "bonus point" system and the concours was, so I am told, included in this year's CVMG Paris Rally program.

AFJ

[LouieMCman]

I agree with you Indianut. And I love that "giant model" comment Earl. My thoughts are.........

The 2 out of 19 people are right, we should ride them. ALL of them even the 80 year old ones. I have a 90 year old one I ride at the meets and for the amusement of my neighbors. If it breaks, I'll fix it!

The other 17 of 19 people should get off the computer, get in the garage, get on your antique bike and RIDE it.

Just my thoughts.....

Louie

[Earl]

Originally posted by Earl
I think a bike should be able to be started and run, in order to be judged for an award. If it doesn't run, it's nothing more than a giant model.

So what does everybody think about a bike having to at least be started before it can be awarded even a 'century' award.

[HarleyCreation]

Hearing an early motorcycle start up and idle for a short time with perhaps a short demonstration ride as an option would certainly show class and add greater enjoyment for spectators than a dead hunk of iron sitting silent due to a nervous Nellie owner worried about his "investment."

My 2 cents.

[darrylri]

Investment?

Perhaps it's just that I'm newer at this than most of you -- I only put together my first older bike (I hesitate to call 1961 "vintage" around here ;-) 10 years ago. Or perhaps it's because I'm just generally dumber. But I have yet to own a bike that, when renovated/restored, was worth more than what I had sunk into it. That includes my 1961 bike, which I got for free, and which only now is finally worth something close to par with what I've spent on it.

I don't have a problem with people keeping museums -- I love to look at old bikes. But for me it absolutely doesn't hold a candle to actually riding it! I wouldn't buy a bike I didn't think I could get into (and keep in) riding condition.

[roland]

Hi Smarty.
That rule your talking about in the british vintage club, i took part in quite a few events 6 or 7 years ago and dont remember ever having to take part in a run so the bike was elegable for judging, i also always used to attend the founders day event at stanford hall and just used to ride my bike around the arena field were every body could get a good look at it and it was still judged there. But i would agree with any rule that say's the bike must run and be in good working order with all legal requirements working i would also not be too bothered about a few miles run, but 50+ miles on open public highways is a bit much. When you spend 3 or 4 years maybe more on a restoration and quite a bit of money i really dont think it is an acceptable risk.
Cheers Roland.

[Smarty]

Hello Roland,

It's not a hard and fast rule enforced by the VMCC it just seems to be the norm in my neck of the woods where the judges at the concours events are generally the same group of guys. It doesn't apply to static events like the Founders Day Rally but more to the local VMCC Section road runs we have on a weekly basis. The implementation of rules is solely down to the VMCC run organiser. I think the VMCC sections generally have more road runs than the AMCA chapters, and most of the VMCC Road Runs have a concours award or "Most Desireable Bike" award/cup awarded. This season (March - November) for example, my two local sections have 31 runs between them. We are quite active in my local area, and have expensive restorations (including veterans and award winners from the main UK shows and national events like the Banbury Run) out on a frequent basis, Brough's experimetal and prototype bikes and bikes featured in the Classic Motorocycle magazine are frequent participants. I suppose we live by the old adage ..."Ride em don't hide em..." either that or the fresh country air here on the South Coast UK means we have more money than sense...lol

Regards,

Smarty

[rickgeo]

This is just another example of some of the ambiguties that go on in our club.

If we ever get to the place where we can apply all of our policies & procedures uniformly,we can shake our image of being "annally retentive" & grow our membership

[Tommo]

This may not be the right place for this but here goes.
Several of us kiwis have looked for a suitable event that would attract us to the USA. Harley 100th fitted the bill for the Harley guys but we have never been able to find another suitable event with enough advance notification that really excited us.
We want to ride not sit around a fairground all day just looking at bikes.
Now don't get me wrong these type of events have their place but they are not what spins our wheels.
It seems that most people voicing their opinions here sort of expect a suitable event to just appear out of thin air and we all know that won't happen.
The Banbury and the Pioneer in England, the Tasmania Vintage Rally and the NZ Vintage and Veteran Rally all evolved from small beginnings to become major rallys attended by people from all over the world. I don't know about Davenport but I'll bet the first one was nowhere as big as it is now and it is only the persistance of a few dedicated members that has made it what it is today.
If those of you who are voicing your opinions the loudest with regard to a pre 1916 rally are serious about it, get out there and make it happen but don't copy someone elses rally, use your imagination and think of something different. I would suggest pre 1925 rather than pre 1916 and in an effort to attract a good attendance advertise it at least a year in advance so people from overseas can plan to attend.
Ideally if some sort of riding event was planned just prior to Davenport you may really see some serious attendence from overseas.
When we were in the States in 2003 we did a fair amount of riding down around the Mississippi from La Crosse to Guttenberg and Prairie du Chien and found the roads around here really beautiful and just right for riding old bikes on.
Especially the Iowa side of the river.
A rally that moved along day by day to a different location in this area I feel would be ideal. Have a night in Anamosa and look at the museum. Finish off in or near Davenport for the swap meet. Theres enough variety in this area that the same roads would only need to be travelled every second or third year.
Thats probably enough from me but I will say make it attractive enough and I might just wheel out my 1904 Indian.
Tommo.

[AFJ]

Originally posted by Tommo
This may not be the right place for this but here goes.
Several of us kiwis have looked for a suitable event that would attract us to the USA. Harley 100th fitted the bill for the Harley guys but we have never been able to find another suitable event with enough advance notification that really excited us.
We want to ride not sit around a fairground all day just looking at bikes.
Now don't get me wrong these type of events have their place but they are not what spins our wheels.
It seems that most people voicing their opinions here sort of expect a suitable event to just appear out of thin air and we all know that won't happen.
The Banbury and the Pioneer in England, the Tasmania Vintage Rally and the NZ Vintage and Veteran Rally all evolved from small beginnings to become major rallys attended by people from all over the world. I don't know about Davenport but I'll bet the first one was nowhere as big as it is now and it is only the persistance of a few dedicated members that has made it what it is today.
If those of you who are voicing your opinions the loudest with regard to a pre 1916 rally are serious about it, get out there and make it happen but don't copy someone elses rally, use your imagination and think of something different. I would suggest pre 1925 rather than pre 1916 and in an effort to attract a good attendance advertise it at least a year in advance so people from overseas can plan to attend.
Ideally if some sort of riding event was planned just prior to Davenport you may really see some serious attendence from overseas.
When we were in the States in 2003 we did a fair amount of riding down around the Mississippi from La Crosse to Guttenberg and Prairie du Chien and found the roads around here really beautiful and just right for riding old bikes on.
Especially the Iowa side of the river.
A rally that moved along day by day to a different location in this area I feel would be ideal. Have a night in Anamosa and look at the museum. Finish off in or near Davenport for the swap meet. Theres enough variety in this area that the same roads would only need to be travelled every second or third year.
Thats probably enough from me but I will say make it attractive enough and I might just wheel out my 1904 Indian.
Tommo.

What you are describing are - basically - the AMCA National Road Runs. 3 or 4 days of riding in a scenic area, from a central base.
Every few years I am able to attend one of these events and always enjoy them.
AFJ

[Baytown]

Originally posted by Tommo
I might just wheel out my 1904 Indian.
Tommo.

G'day Tommo.
Do you really have an 04 Indian?
I thought the 07 owned by Don McIlvrey (I bet I've spelt Don's name wrong!) in Melbourne was the oldest Indian in Australasia.
That's really interesting if you do.
Any chance of some photos for the list?

Thanks mate.

Ken.

P.S There is going to be a re enactment of the 1927 ride from Melbourne to Sydney for pre 1927 Indians planned for 2008. I'll put some info on the list for those interested. Jim Parker notified me of this last week, and there will be a strong push to not allow later machines. I've nominated my 22 Powerplus (if I ever get it sorted out!)

[Tommo]

Baytown, Yes I do.

AFJ,
What I was trying to point out was that instead of saying "We have a road run but nobody comes" you should be saying "What can we do to make our road runs more attractive so more people support us."
Ask Pete Gagan why he goes to the Munster Rally in Ireland or the Pioneer in England.
Why does darrylri travel to Europe for his rally.
Why do the Australians and English bring a container load of bikes to the Pukekohe Festival in NZ every year.
This could go on and on but I'm sure you get my point.
We came for the Harley 100th in 2003. Surely there's an anniversary for a Three Flags run or one of the Coast to Coast runs or what-ever else you could invent a run for.
I'd be one of the first in for a Coast to Coast run on a Vintage bike but you have to realise that most overseas guys that would wish to come would need at least 2 years lead time because to make it viable we would have to find enough interested partys to be able to fill a container with bikes.
The piggyback on Davenport idea was just a suggestion but with the growing ammount of international visitors going to that event why not try and persuade them to come earlier and bring a bike.
I've never been to Oley or Harmony so I don't have a clue as to whether or not the roads and traffic in those areas are suitable for old bikes but I do know that the area I described is.
Think outside the square, don't copy someone else, be an innovater, I'm sure someone can come up with something and when they do you might just be surprised how successful it will become. Remember Rome wasn't built in a day.
Tommo

[AFJ]

Originally posted by Tommo
Baytown, Yes I do.

AFJ,
What I was trying to point out was that instead of saying "We have a road run but nobody comes" you should be saying "What can we do to make our road runs more attractive so more people support us."
Ask Pete Gagan why he goes to the Munster Rally in Ireland or the Pioneer in England.
Why does darrylri travel to Europe for his rally.
Why do the Australians and English bring a container load of bikes to the Pukekohe Festival in NZ every year.
This could go on and on but I'm sure you get my point.
We came for the Harley 100th in 2003. Surely there's an anniversary for a Three Flags run or one of the Coast to Coast runs or what-ever else you could invent a run for.
I'd be one of the first in for a Coast to Coast run on a Vintage bike but you have to realise that most overseas guys that would wish to come would need at least 2 years lead time because to make it viable we would have to find enough interested partys to be able to fill a container with bikes.
The piggyback on Davenport idea was just a suggestion but with the growing ammount of international visitors going to that event why not try and persuade them to come earlier and bring a bike.
I've never been to Oley or Harmony so I don't have a clue as to whether or not the roads and traffic in those areas are suitable for old bikes but I do know that the area I described is.
Think outside the square, don't copy someone else, be an innovater, I'm sure someone can come up with something and when they do you might just be surprised how successful it will become. Remember Rome wasn't built in a day.
Tommo

Dear Tommo,

It was not me who voiced any concern about "having a road run but nobody comes"

Over the 35 years in which I have been involved in organizing events - most of which were motorcycle "runs" or involved a "run" as part of a larger event, I have never been involved with anything where "nobody came". Most of these events, sanctioned by the Canadian Vintage Motorcycle Group, have been for 100 rider groups or fewer, but at least 25 have had attendances of over 300 entrants and thousands of spectators.

Pete Gagan, who I have known for 35 years, (and had dinner with 2 weeks ago at the Allegheny Mountain Road Run) is in the fortunate position to be able to afford to enter a large number of riding events in the US (He mentioned that he was attending all 6 National AMCA Road Runs this year) and internationally. Good for him! I assume that many others - perhaps yourself as well - are in a similarly fortunate position.

But there are many of the 10,000 AMCA members who are not able to take time off work, or time away from family and community duties - or financially equipped - to travel long distances to participate in events which allow them to exercise their treasured old motorcycles.

Others, like my friend and fellow AMCA member Tom Wilcock, dont' seem to need the organization of a big event to go for a ride. Tom decided after he had restored his Indian 4 for the second time (he wore it out after the first rebuild decades ago) that he should do a substantial trip - which in his case was riding from Southern Ontario to the Yukon and back. A friend on a modern H-D went along for the ride.

I think that you will find that there is plenty of innovation in Canadian and American active vintage motorcycling events. A trend in the past few years in Canada seems to be the increase in the number of smaller-scale events which get increased local turnout as the time, distance (and expense) factors are more favourable to more riders.

In the US, the AMCA National Road Runs attract entries of well over 100 riders. Over the years I have attended 3 of these events and found the roads used to be interesting and enjoyable. The most recent was the Allegheny Mountain Run in June and in spite of rain on 2 of the 4 days the organization was very good, the companionship of the other riders excellent, the hospitality warm and friendly and the historic sites and cultural attractions visited on the route all of very great interest.

AFJ