elections

[jww]

Thanks for the responce Pete. Agree or disagree, the explanation here on the forum is appreciated. Looking forward to the next mag. to learn more. johnny

[darrylri]

I belong to another m/c club with about 38,000 members. This club has open elections for directors every year. There are always more candidates than positions.

But... the voting always has a turnout in the mid single digits. If things are working acceptably, then nobody bothers to vote. It's only when there's a divisive issue that comes up that the electorate wants to know what happened.

My personal opinion is that, besides the magazine, the club could hardly spend money better than on a library that provided the ability to see original source materials to members in one form (lending) or another (photocopies, online scans).

[RSmith]

Surprised

We were surprised to come back to this forum and see that AMCA members are still discussing open elections.

I guess it is just part of every adult American. We may disagree on how OUR monies should be spent, or who WE want as our representative, but we settle our differences via open elections.

Having huge amounts of OUR money spent , or "set aside" for surprise items .... or having our NEW club representatives "appointed" by the PAST outgoing officers, just doesn't sit right.

Some AMCA members may want $300,000 in dues spent on a free standing library. While others may agree with Steve G. who would have preferred $100,000 invested on two additional issues of the magazine per year = Six issues a year instead of four.

Why spend $300,000 on a "Library" when we could have 35,000 documents scanned, and put into a "virtual library" that can be accessed by every AMCA member, with no "Librarian" required, for only $50,000?

$300,000 = The ENTIRE membership dues, sent in by 10,000 AMCA MEMBERS, for a full YEAR, for something senior AMCA members tell us they never heard of, or indicated they wanted, before it was passed at the last board meeting. 10,000 members dues for an entire year spent???

It's time for AMCA members to have a vote in the future of our group.

[Paquette]

Rsmith,
With all due respect, who do you think will be the one who scans all those documents and put them in a format on the web to be accessed by all? That is what an archivist does. I hold a Master's degree in Historic Preservation and public history ( that would be archival management). While I would love to spend my hours doing free cataloging, documentation, scanning, etc. it is not feasible or realistic to think anyone is going to do that for free!!! I also have most of the H-D accessory catalogs from 1930--1960 that I would donate to the archive as well as a collection of copies of original H-D production drawing of seats and bags. Perhaps we can put all this info on line and charge for access--NOT. I don't think many of you have a clue to what this process involves. Mr. Gagan is correct in that this will be the best way to spend our dues to benefit ALL members. In my opinion our dues are cheap enough and I think the direction our officers are going in is sound. And by the way if Bruce Lindsay wants to retire as the club archivist, I will gladly take his place, but I shutter at the thought of running against him in an election. After all, I am just looking at publishing my first book!!!! But then again, the archives ( Library) would be in North Carolina--Yall come Ya hear11LOL

[RSmith]

Free?

" .... it is not feasible or realistic to think anyone is going to do that for FREE!!!"

With all due respect "Paquette" .... Nobody EVER wrote that scanning AMCA pages would be "free." Indian4 got a estimate from a company, he has dealt with, for $50,000 and sent a note to me, which is what I wrote. Never wrote "FREE" anywhere (See original quote below).

" ... a "virtual library" that can be accessed by every AMCA member, with no "Librarian" required, for only $50,000? "

$50,000 was quite a difference though, as opposed to using every cent that all 10,000 AMCA members pay in dues, for such a Library. Have you noticed that there been such a demand from the membership, for this Library service?

Indian4 also believes there are other folks who would
happily scan the pages, that we have, for a $50,000 payment.

But we should be allowed to vote on such a large purchase, don't you think?

[c.o.]

Maybe I've had my head buried in the sand for too long but, I've always thought that it was all about the preservation of the bikes and their history. This in my opinion is the most important part of this club. I think the current leadership is doing their job. I also think that it is a little thankless to say that they're not. Why is there such a call for accountability? I'm sure that there is not a deliberate attempt to "keep us in the dark". This sounds like the kind of talk passed back and forth between political parties at election time. Will we be hearing about scandals in the oval office soon?

By the way aren't we all here to talk about bikes?

[jww]

If my memory is correct.......not to awful long ago the financial position of the National was presented to the membership in a brief non-revealing manner. It became a major issue with some that all should be displayed to the membership. Now all is revealed and we are going to have major issues with what we had a desire to see. AIN"T LIFE GRAND! Hey Carl, don't let anyone tell you 45HD pistons won't work in a '37 Indian 4........riding the stew out of it. Now thats important to me.
johnny

[c.o.]

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that a few years back, there was mention that we had an awful large surplus for a non-profit motorcycle club and it was time to start doing a few things to benefit the club.

Now Johnny, ain't those 4's Grand???

[Paquette]

I am going to comment on this one last time as I think that the majority does not understand how an archive really works. Documents are donated, the archivist scans, catalogs, and perhaps puts in a Virtual format. It has been stated that it would cost $50,000 to scan what we have. What about the donations that come in after that. I would suspect that there is a lot of information and printed documents still to be found and hopefully donated. An archive is not a one time deal, it is a living, growing, expanding entity that is a vast resource of knowledge for our members. Yes we are about antique motorcycles, but where does our knowledge come from. He said, he said ,just does not work anymore. I am casting my vote for this library, archive, or whatever one wants to call it, BUT, it has to have a human face and presence behind it!!!!

[RSmith]

Librarian

"I am casting my vote for this library, archive, or whatever one wants to call it, BUT, it has to have a human face and presence behind it!!!! - Paquette"

* * * * * * * * * *

The $300,000 AMCA Library WILL have a human face - remember?
"The planned library would eventually have a FULL TIME librarian ...."
AMCA Board Meeting Minutes - Fall, 2005

We are hiring a full time "Librarian."

And we just wish you could, "CAST YOUR AMCA VOTE,"
for the "library." Unfortunately, you were/are NOT
ALLOWED to vote on ANY AMCA ballot issue, club motorcycle
purchase or open officer/representative position. NONE.

You, a dues paying, AMCA member, CANNOT vote.

Maybe next time .... that's what this is all about ...

[INLINE4NUT]

RS,
WELL PUT ! WEATHER ANYONE LIKES IT OR NOT !! HAPPY EASTER .

[Paps]

I like the idea of a permanent library myself but i do have reservations with it. My main reservation is the continued cost of the yearly upkeep on it. We must remember.....when ever a new structure is built, the cost of such a structure does not end with the initial building costs. An example of this is federal grants for new city parks. Communities flock to obtain the free grant money for such use only to learn that their taxes have gone up as time passes by in order to maintain them. Just something to think about.

An online library is cheaper. Dues paying members could have free access and non dues paying members could pay a fee. Reproducing for the intent to sell such materials compiled by the organization could be protected under copyright laws on a website also.

As far a voting goes.... I like the idea but the term limits should be around a half decade or more. Ballots can be collected at the local chapter level and then submitted to the national. Those on the ballots would be reduced in number at the local level and their names, criteria, experience, and running platforms would be posted in the magazine for all voters to view prior to all elections. If the right to vote does materialize..... MAKE SURE YOU PLACE YOUR VOTE !! My 2cents Paps

[RSmith]

Term Limits?

"As far a AMCA voting goes .... I like the idea but the term limits that should be around a half decade or more. ... If the right to vote does materialize ... MAKE SURE YOU PLACE YOUR VOTE !! PAPS"

"Term Limits?" Interesting point PAPS! Does anybody know how many years the current members, of the AMCA board, have already served?

Right now, we know they each replace themselves . . . by selecting their own replacements . . . then immediately voting them in unanimously, at the board meeting, (see - AMCA Board Minutes, Fall, 2005 AMCA magazine.)

Another example of the current election process, is on Page 71, of the Fall, 2005 magazine -

1) "Officers are elected each year. A motion was made by Rocky Halter*, to approve Pete Gagnon as AMCA President. The vote was in favor 15-0."

2) "A motion was made by Jim Moore to approve Trudi Johnson-Richards for AMCA Secretary. The vote was in favor 15 - 0. "

3) "A motion was made by Kevin Valentine, to approve Dennis Craig for AMCA Treasurer. The vote as in favor 15-0."

4) " A vacancy occurred for the AMCA Vice President with Jerry Ottaway's resignation. Steve Ciccalone nominated AMCA Rocky Halter, (*Rocky Halter nominated Gagnon for President, moments earlier), for AMCA Vice President. The vote was unanimous in favor 15-0."

All ONE person "races," with no competition for any AMCA position and all the board nominated candidates were voted in unanimously, 15 - 0, without a single desenting vote, by any board member at the meeting?

Have to agree with Indian4. It would have been nice if the board would have at least notified the membership, of the openings for all the officers positions, to see who else might just be interested?

[Paquette]

Ok, it would appear that many members do not like the " hand picked" idea so let us announce ourselves as candidates right here. I will stand for election as club archivist. I have advanced degrees in Public history and archival management. I have been doing historical research for more than 15 years. RS--what position would you like to have? All of us as have a voice . I think that the status quo has been in charge for the life of the originization simply because it was so hard to find folks that wanted the job, maybe that has changed.Make your feelings and passions known and let us as MEMBERS change this thing around!!!!

[INLINE4NUT]

PAQUETTE,
NICE TRY! tHERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO CHAGE THE WAY THINGS ARE DONE AND THIS MY FRIEND ISNT THE WAY! THE PRESIDENT AND MOST OF THE CLUB OFFICIALS READ THE POST HERE AND WE ARE ONLY A SMALL CROSS SECTION OF THE CLUB!FOR A CHANGE THIS LARGE (MENBERSHIP VOTING) i THINK A SURVEY SHOULD BE SENT OUT AND THEN IF ENOUGH MEMBERS WANT A CHAGE IN THE WAY THE BOARD IS PICKED THEN IM FOR IT!
FOR THE MOST PART OF THE WAY THE CLUB IS RUN I THINK ALLS WELL,JUST ON BIG TICKET CHANGES,FREE TRAVEL(YOU ALL KNOW OFFICERS GET THAT PERK) 300,000 DOLLAR ACHIVES,EXPENSIVE MC PURCHASES AND THE LIKES,I THINK IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE A SAY!
NOW ENOUGH OF THIS! LETS ENJOY WHAT IT IS WE ALL CAME HERE FOR THE PASSING OF MC KNOWLEDGE AND FUN!!!
PAQUETTE,REMEMBER JUST A FEW POST AGO YOU SAID YOU WHERE ONLY GOING TO COMMENT ON THIS ONE LAST TIME,HA!HA! JUST PULLIN YOUR LEG !