Springer neck set up - help please

[surfdude]

C1388A67-4812-4681-B032-A7115591390E_1_201_a.jpg677AE57E-1BC0-4DDC-94CF-60FD13F1E4DD.jpg78679083-D9CE-4E3D-8C48-47943A8E013D.jpgB3C37BE0-C252-4863-A88B-0B9B10FBDC15.jpgDECED2ED-21C0-4D88-9E56-F65D78D562BE.jpg

okay, the first problem I'm going to hear about is it is a v-twin 47 frame and offset front end and cups and races. that's what I've got, that's what I have to work with. now that that's out of the way, I think I'm having trouble setting it up correctly to put on an offset top clamp for risers on a 47 .

offset springer has a self centering guide for the race at the bottom of the neck stem on top of the fork crown plates, followed by a bottom race, then ball bearings then the bottom neck cup. right so far? and if correct, when it is all tightened up should i see the bottom edge of the race and some space between the bottom of the race and the crown plates when looking head on in between the springs? how much, because im seeing 3/32" from front edge of race to fork plate.

on the top side of the frame neck is the top cup, then ball bearings and then a top race, followed by the cone nut. correct? OR - does the inside of the crown nut eliminate the need for a race on top? (probably not but i had to ask) if i use a top race then the crown nut, when fairly snug leaves only 1/4" of stem showing above the top of the cone nut. if i take out the race and just use the cone nut on top, then i have 7/16" of stem showing above the top of the cone nut.

i feel like I'm doing something wrong - like there's too much space being taken up by the races and cups and therefore not enough stem above the cone nut. it seem like it should all be more compact. when i put the offset top clamp on, the fork tubes dont come all the way up to the top surface of the clamp - there's a gap. next is the plate/cover that has the locking pin that fits in the cone nut teeth and the nut that holds that on - its only catching like 2-3 threads, again, because there is not enough stem above the cone nut.

my feeling is the races are too thick but would like to hear what you all have to say.

thanks.

[surfdude]

58935179-7B07-491D-8478-43CAE6CCA66F.jpg

here's the front view when all snugged up - sorry can't rotate it...

[ammorest]

Surfdude, Your first and last sentences sum it up. Me and others on the forum have had the same problem. I had to have a machinist machine the v-twin races to the shape of an original race. Or you could try to find a good pair of original races but good ones are hard to find.
Dave

[ammorest]

Surfdude, I spoke with my machinist today and he reminded me that he also had to machine the v-twin neck cups.
Dave

[surfdude]

ouch! thanks dave.

has anyone else had the same issue or done anything differently to solve the problem???

[Rubone]

Had the same issue with a friends '44 Knuckle. I set up the cups in a lathe and ground the centering hole deeper to allow the races to move further apart. Fianlly got enough to add the top nut and the steering damper. No easy way with that aftermarket crap.

[surfdude]

thanks robbie. a friend just came up with original cups, used but good shape. now searching for races.

dave - guessing your machinist went to work on the underside of the races so they would sit lower or drop down farther on the surfaces of the self centering guide on bottom and cone nut up top?

and - explain this one to me. you have a flat surface where an inline stem comes out of the crown plates on bottom. but when you bend the stem to make it offset the stem is no longer perpendicular to the crown plate. so when you put the self centering guide on the stem and slide it all the way down, won't the front edge be slightly lifted off the surface? and if that is the case, should you always have a slight gap between the race and the crown plates in front between the springs like in my last picture above? is the bottom of that self centering guide supposed to be ground at an angle so it sits flat? i'm probably way overthinking this...

[surfdude]

i suppose you could also machine off a bit of the top surface of the cone nut as well to allow more stem height and gain threads for the top nut and and room for the steering dampener? like 1/32"? more? less?

[Rubone]

On a true offset fork the crown plate is twisted. On fakes it usually is not.

[BigLakeBob]

Surfdude, I spoke with my machinist today and he reminded me that he also had to machine the v-twin neck cups.
Dave

The neck cups were not hardened (or to say not as hard as they need to be).DSC05416mp.JPGDSC05417mp.JPGIf you are not familiar, the instrument is a Rockwell hardness tester, bearings are about 65+ Rc (rockwell) for example.

View of height differences.DSC05414.jpgDSC05415mp.JPG

[surfdude]

thank you bob, dave and robbie. so there are a few places to potentially work on to try to get some extra space - the cups, races, possibly the top surface of the acorn nut, maybe even the raised surfaces on the top and bottom sides of the top clamp. and hardening things might be worth looking into, although above my pay grade. and that's why original parts are so costly.