Steam Motorcycle

[petri]

When I was 12 and visiting my grandparents in Hayward, CA in 1956, we took a trip to San Francisco for the day. We visited the Cliff House and I distinctly remember that they had windows outside and in one window a red steam motorcycle was on display. I have wondered ever since about that motorcycle and what exactly I was looking at. At 12 I really didn't have much knowledge about these things.

Brief mention is made of these machines in Stephen Wright's book The American Motorcycle and Early Motorcycles by Page'. They talk about Roper's bike and a british bike both made before the turn of the century. On the the Stanley Steamer website there is a 1908 Field owned by Gerry Stoneman, pic attached. He has yet a second one in restoration. There is even a short film of this machine in operation. Go to www.stanleysteamers.com click on Steam Archives and then 2004. This I believe is a british bike but I'm not sure as information is rather scarce on these unusual machines.

Now it seemed to me that the bike I was looking at in 1956 was not pre 1900 and may have been newer that pre 1910. it was definitely an antique though and not something newly constructed.

Anybody know anything about these machines and where one might learn more about them? Anybody know what exactly I was looking at at the Cliff House in 1956?

Howard

[Pete Gagan]

Hi Petri:
The bike you saw in 1956 was the "Steam Flyer" which has since been restored. It was built in the late twenties by a steam tinkerer, and the power plant is fitted to an Ace rolling chassis. It appeared at Pebble Beach in 1997 along with my 1896 Geneva steam bicycle. I believe its still in California somewhere.
The British bike mentioned in Page's book is the Pearson & Cox, built in 1914. It was commercially produced for one year only, but in very limited numbers, and only one survivor exists in a British museum. It has been sectioned. There was one in New Zealand a few years back, but I've been unable to trace it.
Roper's steam powered Columbia bicycle was pretty amazing. I have a replica on which I've done over 40 mph before chickening out as a result of being unable to stop. Its probably good for 60, which explains why Roper had a heart attack while riding his, becoming the word's first motorcycle fatality.
The Field is a new one on me, and no doubt they are another backyard mechanic's dream, built on another chassis. It is British. Note the tax discs.
The Geneva and my 1884 Copeland, both American, are delightful curiousities, but horribly underpowered.
Apart from the Pearson and Cox, the only other attempt at commercial production was the "Loco-cycle" manufactured by the Stanleys while they ran the Locomobile Company at the turn of the century. Only one or two were made, and none are known to survive. Another surviving British steam bike is the 1912 Haleson, which appears at VMCC event occasionally. Its also a one off built on another chassis.
My Roper is probably more fun that anything I've owned. Smoke, steam, and red hot cinders are fabulous attention getters. Most other steam two wheelers were none too successful.
Steam plants and engines are usually too heavy for efficient use on two wheels. The Roper is light and fast, but the trade-off is it only carries enough water and coal for a range of 8-10 miles.
Pete Gagan

[petri]

Hi Pete;
That's fantastic; I never thought I would ever get any information on that machine and voila, now I know. You seem to be quite involved with these very early machines; I read about your current Pennington project and am impressed.
I actually live near one of those cities Pennington lived in, Mt. Carmel, IL is only 20 or so miles from Vincennes. I drive through it all the time. I've been asking older people around here if they ever heard stories from their parents or grandpparents of an airship flying around here. No luck so far. Since I fly for fun the aviation side of his activities also interest me.
You describe your steamers as fun but rather impractical. Even the successful Stanley Steamers with no recondensing would only go for maybe 10 miles or so, the later recondensing machines up to 50 miles. Your machines are quite old fashioned and I can't believe the Roper burns coal.
I wonder about the Steam Flyer which you say was made in the late 20's. By then the technology was very much more advanced than at the turn of the century. Have you ever heard anything about how well that machine runs and how far one could get on it before refilling the water? The Ace frame is a nice looking frame and that bike caught my attention when I was young. I didn't remember it as being turn of the century-ish.
Look at the film on that Stanley Steamer web site, fascinating. There is very little information given on the Field but his second one claimed to be bigger than the first. No two alike imply homemade I guess. I know the registration indicates England but I really don't know if those bikes are in the US or England. I wonder if Gerry Stoneman considers himself a motorcycle person or a steam person. Maybe your English contacts can shed some light on him and his Fields.

thanks
Howard

[petri]

Well here's the only reference on the internet that Google picks up on the Steam Flyer. One wonders about the accuracy of the 1912 date.

Howard


http://carlaking.typepad.com/weblog/...flyer_mot.html

May 27, 2004
Steam Flyer Motorcycle at San Francisco's Musee Mecanique
The San Francisco Musee Mechanique has temporarily moved from its Ocean Beach location at the Cliff House (which is being renovated) to a stunning location on Pier 45, in the heart of Fisherman's Wharf with stellar views of the bay. This place is a fascinating tour of fun for the mechanically minded, and among their collection is a fire-engine red steam-powered motorcycle, restored to perfect running condition.

I talked about the motorcycle with Daniel Galland Zelinsky, a fifth generation San Franciscan and a second generation collector who oversees the exhibit and is the primary force in its expansion. Between dispensing quarters to the group of travel writers who was visiting (I was with the Bay Area Travel Writers group), he explained that it had been exhibited once since its restoration, but there were no plans for future demonstrations. "Though all it takes to start it is a match," he said.

Who made it, and why? I asked. Built in 1912 by a Mr. Gilligan in Sacramento seems to be all that is known about it. I'm begging for history, as well as a ride. Zelinsky, who had just taken his 16 year old son for his first motorcycle ride the day before (he owns a vintage BSA), was interested in talking motorcycles but wasn't interested in taking the Steam Flyer out of the glass case for a demo. "Well count on me to whine until I get a ride," I told him. Hopefully an antique motorcycle show will come up that he just can't resist.

The acquisition of the Steam Flyer was a lucky deal for the senior Zelinsky, Ed, a long-time San Franciscan and the owner off the museum. An inveterate collector since childhood, he acquired many of the machines from George Whitney Sr., owner of Playland-At-The-Beach, San Francisco's landmark amusement park, which closed in 1972.

Ed and George Whitney used to have lunch together every third Thursday of the month, and although Ed seldom sells any of his collection, he loves to trade. Back then, he did a lot of trading with George Whitney. "We traded music boxes and pianos back and forth," Ed recalls, "but I'll never forget the day I traded for the steam motorcycle. I remember he had a scotch over ice, shrimp cocktail, and a minute steak. I tried to copy him, but I couldn't keep up with him on the drinks."

"Well, I had quite a few drinks, and I was feeling no pain, and george said, 'Ed, you have a 1904 Franklin. Do you want to trade it?'

"And I said, 'George, what will you give me for it?' Well, I don't really remember the conversation, but I do remember shaking hands with him, and Mr. Whitney telling me, 'Ed, you are the proud owner of a steam motorcycle.'"

Later, the two men had diner again, and Whitney asked Ed who got the best deal in teh trade. "I don't know, George, you tell me," Ed recalls.

Then Whitney said, "Ed, I got the best deal. I got a Franklin that's running and you got a motorcycle that isn't."

Ed told him, "That's funny, George. I thought I got the best of the deal because I got the only steam motorcycle, perhaps, in the whole world."

Whitney then called Ed a few weeks later and asked if he wanted to trade back again. "That when I knew I had a good deal," Ed says.

Time has proved Zelinsky right. Recently, the peripatetic collector received an unsolicited offer of $250,000 for the motorcycle. "Now I know I really got the best deal!" he says.

[c.o.]

Yet again another great thread! Hey Petri did you catch all the laughter and enthusiasm on the part of the crowd watching the steam bike putt along? It's a very interesting site. I can see where a person could get addicted to that steam thing!!!!

[petri]

Hi C.O.
Yes I did. I bet those people were smiles from ear to ear. What an interesting thing to work on. I'm fascinated by steam and think it would be great fun to get it into a motorcycle. It would be great to start a project like that, especially on a later frame like the ACE with 20's or 30's steam technology. Best would be to reproduce something that actually existed at the time, such as the Steam Flyer. Perhaps one could get a bike that would be able to cover a reasonable distance.
I read that when WWII came along many of the old steamers, Stanley Steamers mostly, that were in the junk yards, were retrieved because of gasolene rationing. These steamers burned kerosene which was still readily available. It got some people back on the road.
I wish there were more information available on these steam motorcycles but nobody seems to have collected it all and published it in one place. I suppose steam motorcycles is a backwater but it sure is interesting.

Howard

[c.o.]

Howard,

I've just recently decided to have a fascination in steam. For some reason the more primitive the power, the more interesting it is to me. I do believe that the patents that are available in the Club mag have info on a steam powered bike. I hope to see Pete's Geneva in action one day!

[petri]

Well C.O., more than person can have a fascination with steam. I'm afraid I will have to do something about it one of these days myself. By the way a couple of years ago there was a gathering of Stanley Steamers at the Stanley Hotel in Estes Park, CO. I have a friend that lives in Allenspark during the summer and he got to see it. Did you know about it?

Ok everyone I've found more information on the Field.
Check this web site.

http://www.steamcar.net/field.html

It's the British Steam Car Club website and there seems to be a lot of activity in this area over there. Gerry Stoneman is a very active member and is constantly restoring anything that runs on steam. The Field steam motorcycles 1 and 2 are described here. I bet if it runs on steam these people know about it.

Howard

[Pete Gagan]

Somewhere in my pile of old literature, I have an article on Mr. Gilligan and his "steam flyer". I believe the date was 1928, and at that time it seems to me the bike had a Henderson chassis. No doubt it was an ongoing developmental process. The article said that a speed of 50 mph had been reached, but further work had to be done on the burner system. Whether this was ever accomplished is unknown.
There is a replica of a Pearson and Cox being built here in Vancouver, and although its had steam up, it also has burner problems. Its in a modern chassis, so isn't what you would call a true replica. Jay Leno has acquired a steam motorcycle that was featured in various motorcycle magazines of the fifties, and is powered by a Toledo steam car engine, which is fitted to a contemporary Harley chassis. It was never successful at the time, but Jay tells me he is using a heat exchanger from a Cruise Missle for a boiler. He is also a steam nut, and has lots of $$ to throw at the project. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
So far, Sylvester Roper's bike was the best for my money. No burner problems with the coal or charcoal fire, and its hot.
Pete

[petri]

I would love to see Gilligan's article. If you can find it maybe you could post it here if you can get it into a computer readable format.

Like Mr. Roper, when you stop somewhere with your's, do you remove the coals and put them in a bucket to keep from boiling your water away? Or is getting "somewhere" not really an issue?
It appears to me that range is the real problem with these steamers.

Is Jay Leno's steamer on a "contemporary Harley chassis" a 50's chassis? If everything is 50's or earlier I guess it would qualify under the 35 year rule as an antique.

Attached is another picture of the 1908 Field with owner Gerry Stoneman. Looks like he's ready to travel.

Howard

[Smarty]

Haleson Pictures attached

[Smarty]

Haleson Picture attached

[Smarty]

Haleson picture attached (No 3)

[petri]

Thanks Smarty for the Haleson pics. Do you have any information on the operating parameters of this machine? When was it built? England seems to be a "hotbed" of steam engine interest.

Howard

[INLINE4NUT]

Thanks one and all for all this wonderful info! Nice reading,now seeing how its Steam when the gentleman gets off the MC are his pants wrinkle free!!!!! Key word STEAM