Todd's 'GREENIE'.

[Chris Haynes]

Say what You will about Todd & 'Greenie'--and many have!!! But, the extensive documentation and Americana have led to the highest payed-out Knucklehead in current history. Mecum's final tally is...$225,000.00 Todd at very minimum, has exclusive Bragging Rights to have owned 'Greenie' and sold 'Greenie' for that amount...

*M.A.D.*

I have yet to see any documentation that this bike left the factory with what is on it today.

[pan620]

I have not either, he says he has the documentation
, but shows documentation from a different bike or am i missing something?

[BNSONS]

I wonder the same thing when someone’s bike gets AMCA judged and there is no proof that the particular bike being judged was one specific color. In reality it’s at least a 1 in 4 chance of it having left the factory being that color. The color of the judged bike is whatever the owner fancies at the time. What about police bikes and Servi-cars? Without the vin’s being present on the orig order blanks or sales contracts which seldom happens, it’s all just speculation. Maybe, just maybe, there should be a rule change that reflects the fact that bikes left the Factory with special order paint jobs. Why deny the rich history of personalized bikes? Don’t we celebrate them in the AMCA’s own magazine?
Disclaimer: Excuse my grammar when I was a young lad in school all I did was daydream about motorcycles.

[Steve Slocombe]

I've been slogging through the Mecum and Bonhams results from Vegas and, apart from a few vanity items, saw signs that the market is softening. There were a lot of estate sales in there and really quite a lot of unsold bikes. The pretend early race bikes are going for close to the cost of building them from scraps, and two Detroit Hendersons were unsold when I looked. How about a nice restored 1932 Harley single for $10,000, or a British twin at the end of the auction for $1900? With the Mecum auction lasting so long, it depended on the day and who was in the room, as I can see no logic in the very different prices for similar bikes. Next time if buying I'd go Thursday and Sunday, or if selling make sure my machine goes through Friday or Saturday.

[BoschZEV]

saw signs that the market is softening.

Today's New York Times has an article on the vintage car market. According to the article total sales at this month's auctions in Scottsdale were off by 3% from last year, with the sell-through rate off by 4%, the average price down to $81.5k from $94.3k, and the top price of $3.2M only ~1/3 that of a few years ago. Speculations by several people quoted include the best being held back because they see the market trending down, a change in the tax law that affects high-end speculators, better data on previous sales reducing "overbidding" in the heat of the moment, and more cars being sold online.

[JoJo357]

I wonder the same thing when someone’s bike gets AMCA judged and there is no proof that the particular bike being judged was one specific color. In reality it’s at least a 1 in 4 chance of it having left the factory being that color. The color of the judged bike is whatever the owner fancies at the time. What about police bikes and Servi-cars? Without the vin’s being present on the orig order blanks or sales contracts which seldom happens, it’s all just speculation. Maybe, just maybe, there should be a rule change that reflects the fact that bikes left the Factory with special order paint jobs. Why deny the rich history of personalized bikes? Don’t we celebrate them in the AMCA’s own magazine?
Disclaimer: Excuse my grammar when I was a young lad in school all I did was daydream about motorcycles.

Excellent Point BNSONS!
Unless the 'Customer Order No.' for the particular year ordered: for example--'1938 Seasons Order Blank Invoice', then anyone's guess is good as the next! The Motor Company would customize practically anything within their capacities for an additional charge to generate income, and satisfy their customers. Also, it doesn't even count the extra accessories the Dealer could install, prior to delivery, or after service. From what i've read and gathered over the years, H-D kept meticulous records. But, when AMF rolled into town, many archives/paperwork etc. were destroyed.

*M.A.D.*

[Chris Haynes]

For judging any color listed on the order blank is acceptable. If the bike is painted any other color it must be accompanied by factory documentation that it was painted a non standard color by the factory.

[Rollo]

Better check that statement that AMF destroyed them. I have a friend who works at HD Juneau Ave. for 25 years and that it not what they say. There was a fire around 59 or 60 I think that destroyed a lot of archives and records and that is part of the reason so few records prior to 60 still exist. Got that straight from Pete Simett who managed the archives. I'm not saying AMF didn't cull the files but HD maintained records for a long time and if not for the fire I'm sure would have digitized things to save space and maybe sent the actual paper files to a long term storage space. Todd's problem is he is using a generic 40 order form as his proof. It is not specific to that bike, as other have stated. Yes a bike could be ordered any color still available but no proof that the vin was. Also I find it very hard to believe that the MOCO would allow any customer to order a bike with a transmission that they had issues with and would trigger constant repair and replacement. That is why that 39 tranny was one year only and a lot of them were replaced with the 36-38 and 40 and up shift pattern. I am not so bold as to say never but I have seen and heard Todd's "proof" and it doesn't hold up and with out that it is a "fantasy bike" as Robbie would put it. He paid too much for it IMHO and got someone to do better than that to him.

Tom (Rollo) Hardy
AMCA #12766

[BNSONS]

What about police bikes? By that logic without the police order blank with the bike’s vin it’s also a “fantasy police bike.” Next year that same bike could be a civilian bike and the year after that it can be one of those special navy bikes. Everybody knows bikes could have been painted any way you wanted. Why demand a non-standard colored bike show proof of vin, when that same proof is not required on a standard color bike. I know all about the rules, they were made, and they can be changed.

[grease monkey]

what were the issues with the 39 4 speed transmission? I had a 39 UL and it gave no problems. I thought the reason for the odd shift pattern on the 4 speed was that it allowed Harley to use the same shifter drum for the 4 speed as with the 3 plus reverse. I thought the idea was brilliant .

[Jerry Wieland]

what were the issues with the 39 4 speed transmission? I had a 39 UL and it gave no problems. I thought the reason for the odd shift pattern on the 4 speed was that it allowed Harley to use the same shifter drum for the 4 speed as with the 3 plus reverse. I thought the idea was brilliant .

The 1936 to 1938 already did use the same drum for the reverse tranny as it did for the 4 speed. There was nothing to change. Jerry

[Chris Haynes]

H-D transmission are constant mesh. Only the shifting dogs move. The '39 was the only sliding gear transmission used on Knucks and Panheads.

[Rubone]

H-D transmission are constant mesh. Only the shifting dogs move. The '39 was the only sliding gear transmission used on Knucks and Panheads.

And also all 3 speed or 3&R Big Twin from '39-'79.

[JoJo357]

Better check that statement that AMF destroyed them. I have a friend who works at HD Juneau Ave. for 25 years and that it not what they say. There was a fire around 59 or 60 I think that destroyed a lot of archives and records and that is part of the reason so few records prior to 60 still exist. Got that straight from Pete Simett who managed the archives. I'm not saying AMF didn't cull the files but HD maintained records for a long time and if not for the fire I'm sure would have digitized things to save space and maybe sent the actual paper files to a long term storage space.

Tom (Rollo) Hardy
AMCA #12766

Thanks for clearing that up Tom.

*M.A.D.*

[dlevy]

tuesday and wednesday are also good days to buy