Project for the un-initiated novice and son...??

[WmC1911]

My '55 R69,
Found in a horse trailer a few years back.....for $250.00 in original but rough shape.

That's a beauty!!!
Wm. Covington
Member #35522

[WmC1911]

The BMWs from the 50s - 60s are already set up to attach a sidecar. They are reliable and can be found in good original condition and there is a good source of replacement parts for them. Look for models with the Earles Fork. The prices aren't too high compared to some brands.

Thank you Jim,
I'll keep my eyes open.
Wm. Covington
Member #35521

[WmC1911]

Hello William,
Been following this thread and there's a lot of good advice from experienced people, especially finding a running and fairly complete but not correct bike. Also getting all the literature you can pertaining to the bike you choose; shop manuals, rider's handbook, parts books. You might want to get a copy of Bruce Palmer's book, How To Restore Your HarleyDavidson, He is out of them but you might find a copy on line. It covers 1937 to 1964. He is working on a new edition now that will cover more models.
By all means try to get to some meets. I realize being a farmer is a full time job but try to find the time. Now for my suggestion on a bike: Harley big twin, 1937 to 1948 74 or 80 Flathead or 1948 t0 1964 Panhead. In 1936 Harley made some good improvements: recirculating oil system, improved clutch and transmission, better wheel hubs, welded gas tanks, and built in speedometer..
A couple if issues to think about and I am not trying to discourage you in any way. Is Will on the same page of enthusiasm as you about the project? At some point the project may get held up for one reason or another. Will he lose interest and back off? Just a thought. Also do you have a space dedicated to the project where you can organize it to store and work on the bike? Don't forget a sidecar takes up a lot of space.
Anyway, hope to see you and Will at a meet digging for parts.
Dave

Dave,
Great advice. I'll look up Palmers book(s) tonight. I hope Will's interest doesn't fizzle out. So far, he seems pretty stoked! But I do know sometimes that when items become all work and no pleasure the potential is there for him to burn out... I'll be reminding him to keep his eye on the prize!!!
As far as space, yes. We have a workshop behind the house perfect for such an endeavor. Though...its getting tighter all the time due to the wifey not wanting all my gizmos in our attached garage,haha.
Hope to see you at a swap meet as well!
Many Thanks Dave!

Wm. Covington
Member #35521

[Steve Slocombe]

It's great to see so many pieces of advice so that you don't make the same mistakes we all did - usually paying too much money for a hopeless basket case. They say we learn from our mistakes, so I must be very knowledgeable now because I've sure made a lot of mistakes with old bikes over the years. My joint project with my then teenage son was a 1980 Sportster (a 'JO motor') from loose parts of various years in a package from a dealer. Yup, that was an education alright. A few years later we did the quarter mile sprint together one summer on an airfield, him on a 1950 Harley WR and me on the 1934 VL bobber/racer. You don't get many days like that in your life.

As to further comments, I'm finding civilianised WLA/WLC models show very little discount to proper military bikes with good numbers. And Johnny Sells' excellent book is on the 1929-36 Harley DL/RL small twins. We have been waiting a long time for an equivalent shop manual on the much more numerous pre-1930 pocket valve twins.

[kunzog]

Start with the most complete motorcycle that you can even if all torn apart. Dont think you can build an antique cheaper by finding parts. It used to be that you could but now parts are harder to find and more expensive than a complete bike.

[kitabel]

When going to see a bike for sale, try to get as much information as you can via e-mail (not phone). Post whatever you get ("it's fully rebuilt") here and frequently we can help detect fraud, sounds-good-but-didn't happen, too cheap to be real, etc. Many people here are a vast library of knowledge and history on this stuff - but you have to ask the question (like "what does this mean?").
For an American bike, my choice of fun per dollar spent would be a 1934-36 VL, significantly cheaper than any big twin 1937-*, enough power for traffic and sidecar, highway speed no problem, reliable electrics and carburetor. Not as welcome: small brakes, iron heads, 3 speed + foot clutch.
I was slowly building a big UL engine and late 4-speed to go into a VL chassis (before my last few medical events). Not authentic but pretty.

[T. Cotten]

What's Will want, William?

(Anything but a Sportster, I hope...!)

....Cotten

[chuckthebeatertruck]

(Anything but a Sportster, I hope...!)

....Cotten

Some of us like our sportsters -- a lot.

[T. Cotten]

Some of us like our sportsters -- a lot.

Your puppy might not have been as sick as most, Chuck!

They were often an 'entry level' machine, if you know what I mean.
So often they suffered from near zero maintenance, sold, punished some more, sold,.. etc.

Unless you find that rare example,
(I'd even jump at that...)
You would only take on all the sins of past owners.

Anyone with tools and resources can take a twenty-five hundred dollar sportster, sink twenty-five hundred dollars into it, and have a great twenty-five hundred dollar sportster. It will mean much more than that to you, of course.

....Cotten

[knuckcrazy]

WmC1911,
I did the same a while ago with my son, 13 at the time (search Austin's bobber build) in parking lot chatter.
We are also from Kentucky but further east.
Not much activity on this side of the state, feel like the lone ranger sometimes.
His tastes have expanded to Women, Lifted Diesel Trucks and yes he still throws a leg over a motorcycle every now and then.
The WLA he built is still in the shop although technically it is mine as he hocked it to me for above Diesel truck.
Actually he is a good businessman as he still gets to ride it when he desires for free along with my other bikes .
Now his weapon of choice is a KTM 1290 Super Duke rocket..
He still works in the shop powder coating, wrenching, welding and etc.
Austin is in his third year of Millwright apprenticeship and travels the country working in Automotive plants.
He makes more than any of his college bound buddies will probably ever make with health insurance and a pension for when he hits 48 years young.
I guess what I am saying is I am happy to hear you are going on this adventure with your son and wish you luck.
You never know what fire you might start with a little bit of Love, effort and an old Motorcycle shared between a father and son.
It worked well for me.
Bob Williams

[chuckthebeatertruck]

Your puppy might not have been as sick as most, Chuck!

They were often an 'entry level' machine, if you know what I mean.
So often they suffered from near zero maintenance, sold, punished some more, sold,.. etc.

Unless you find that rare example,
(I'd even jump at that...)
You would only take on all the sins of past owners.

Anyone with tools and resources can take a twenty-five hundred dollar sportster, sink twenty-five hundred dollars into it, and have a great twenty-five hundred dollar sportster. It will mean much more than that to you, of course.

....Cotten

No disagreement.

However, let's talk about the math and acceptable loss, so as to help our original poster continue informing his opinion.

Yep, it's a loss -- some of the time.

Yet, it's not necessarily a complete loss, depending on your goal.

We can certainly agree a $20k big twin will hold value and more than likely increase well. Conversely, the number of guys with 20k cash to quickly buy a bike off me vs $2500 is substantial. This is highly dependent on geography. In Chicago, the time difference between the high and low end buyer is pretty small. Middle of Kansas or Wyoming might make it far easier to find a 2500 guy in a month vs four months waiting on the 20k guy. Not to mention a guy looking to spend real money is going to be far less likely to get junk drunk and over pay. So, if you see the bike as a commodity, the ability to easily convert the commodity to cash should be factored into the loss.

Then there is depreciation, or amortization, depending on your goal. If I'm 5k in and have corrected the sins, I now have a reliable, fun to ride bike I can use daily. If we go by your math, my "cost" is the loss of $2500 as the value to purchase cost ratio is 1:1. So, I would amortize that money. Let's do it over ten years. That means the bike costs me 250 bucks a year to write down.

On the other side, give it ten years and now I've got 15k miles on the sporty, it owes me no money, and is now worth more than my $2500 purchase price. By amortizing my cost, I now enjoy the total profit above $2500.

I also have had the $15,000 difference between that $20k big twin and the $5k money pit jingling around in my pocket.

15 large is a lot other bikes, paying down the mortgage so I don't have to eat cat food in my old age, paying health insurance, and a million other things, etc. I agree the big twin will certainly be worth more, but I also have to tie up more capital upfront to enjoy it.

So, there is more to think about when deciding if a loss is acceptable.

It's all in how you want to look at that $2500 loss.

[T. Cotten]

Its not a loss, Chuck,..

Until you have to cash it in!

...Cotten

[ihrescue]

Many thanks Steve Slocombe. I very much appreciate your experience and input. It's been tough to find anyone locally with any antique motorcycles, but if I expanded my search area... say 90 mile radius... I'd assume that this will provide some leads...
Great advice and many thanks for your time to help further educate myself & son...
Wm. Covington
Member #35521

William and Will - Good luck. You have some very good advice here. Interestingly a guy wrote a book about an adventure of a father, a son and a BMW that was the subject of the book. The book is Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Pirsig. His boy rode behind him on the saddle. They camped some and stayed in motels some as they traveled. The book is mixed in with some philosophy and I kind of steered around this for the human and motorcycle interface. Somewhat interesting since it relates. I did some look up in the member roster and yes you are a few miles from AMCA members but I found two listed in the Clarksville area of Tennessee to your south. The Lincoln Hwy Chapter #24 of AMCA is to your North East and the president is Scott Baumgardner who lives in Owensboro KY. They cover a pretty big region but getting with the insiders will lead you to other insiders. Finding the folks that can help you is not unlike finding the bikes and parts themselves until you start building the network of contacts and acquaintances. I will send you an email for Scott. I recommend you touching base with him as one of your first contacts.

Mike Love

[ihrescue]

Can't emphasize enough the value of attending a national swap meet to look around and talk to people. The season is winding down now but check the AMCA website for schedules and a Chapter near you. Contact the Chapter and make connections locally if at all possible.
Like you I came here in my antique bike infancy and folks told me to attend a swap meet and join a chapter. I had done homework online on my own but actually meeting and talking to people with experience was a significant important step in making sure I bought the right bike. Since then I have seen others buy the wrong bike because they didn't get educated and it ends up being a bad experience for them.
Don't buy a basket case starting out. Those are for guys with a garage full of parts (or a friend with a garage full of parts) and years of knowledge in the hobby. Buy the best running bike you can afford and trust me, there will still be plenty of projects for you and your son to work on. Good for you wanting to get your son interested in the hobby.

Jason's advice is good and how nice would it be for you and Will to take a couple day trip to Smyrna FL for the Sunshine Chapter National Meet the weekend of March 6-7? https://sunshinechapteramca.yahoosit...onal-meet.html

Roughly its a 15 hour trip by vehicle.

Mike Love

[T. Cotten]

.. Interestingly a guy wrote a book about an adventure of a father, a son and a BMW that was the subject of the book. The book is Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Pirsig. His boy rode behind him on the saddle. They camped some and stayed in motels some as they traveled. The book is mixed in with some philosophy and I kind of steered around this for the human and motorcycle interface. Somewhat interesting since it relates. ..

I've got a free spare copy!!

But its boring, and I wouldn't do that to Will
(without a PM and a postal address.)

...Cotten
PS: My other copy sits under the soap dish by the shop commode.
Nobody touches the soap, either.