35 year rule has this finally reached a limit of what is an antique? 1985 is it?

[exeric]

This thread is the epitome of what our AMCA forum is all about, and shows what we can be as a club, and national organization. We don't have to agree, but the civil exchange of ideas is enough to give people new ideas to think about.

[Paps]

Just think how valuable an AMF produced bike or a Buell will be worth as a collectable.

[Peter Cooke]

but, do you realize many high school students have never seen a rotary dial phone? Its all relevant folks.

That is so true. My 10 year old niece recently jumped into the back seat of my 23 year old Ford and asked where the button was to get the window down. I told her it's pre electric windows so grab the handle and start winding.
Apparently that's the most ridiculous thing she's ever seen...

[Steve Swan]

Just think how valuable an AMF produced bike or a Buell will be worth as a collectable.

i'm guessing not those horrid singles, but the twins definitely have a loyal following

[AdvenJack]

How About "ANCIENT" ?

As a new guy to the club, and being 58 years old right now, I submit that I'd like to see the words
COLLECTIBLE, CLASSIC, VINTAGE, ANTIQUE & ANCIENT correspond to specific spans of years.
Say COLLECTIBLE is for manufacture years 1999 and older, CLASSIC means manufactured from 1979
and older, VINTAGE means manufactured from 1959 and older, ANTIQUE means manufactured from
1939 and older, and the new descriptive term ANCIENT meaning manufactured from 1919 and
older. This way COLLECTIBLE is the all encompassing word, and each subsequent word gets more and
more specific regarding production year. In the future new terms could be added of course, or ex-
changed with the COLLECTIBLE term. Maybe COLLECTIBLE would always be the term for twenty to forty
years old. But the other terms that I've suggested for the manufacture years I think should be steadfast.
Is it really so important, the name of the club? What's terrible about CMCA - Collectible Motorcycle
Club of America ?

[AdvenJack]

Phooy...

Below is a DARN SAD story...

I went to an amca florida chapter meet a few years ago and brought my 1911 flying merkel in the back of my truck. I thought it would be good to bring a bike for people to look at, talk about, and have something to reinforce the old motorcycle hobby we are suppose to be sharing. About 3 guys thought it was the funniest thing they had seen that day, joked about the ignorance, and stupidity of the early 20th century, and thought it was dumber than a moped. I could understand that response from a group of morons at an auto zone parking lot, but from amca members? Awareness of old motorcycles should go before the post war era; and that was always my appreciation of the efforts of amca members that brought rare, and unique motorcycles to a national, or regional meet. You can look at pictures of old bikes, but there is no substitute for the real thing.

[AFJ]

While my peers and I generally prefer older bikes such as what we sought and got started with and lead to joining the AMCA, I think it is important not to discourage potential new younger members by restricting their options of interest or affordability. I think it is great when a young person shows interest and puts effort into finding, repairing, and preserving whatever they can afford instead of simply being given "disposable toys".
My 2 cents! (CDN)

The AMCA policy on “eligible” motorcycles.

1954 – Originally intended to be called the “Veteran Motorcycle Club” it was formally formed as the “Antique Motorcycle Club” for owners of motorcycles made in the year 1930 or earlier.

1970 – it was for motorcycles made up to and including 1942. Antique motorcycles were those made up to and including year 1930. “also motorcycles manufactures to new year dates between 1930 – 1942 to be know as post-antique.

1977 – Addition of 1943 through 1948 motorcycles to be judged in the Post-Antique class and the Post – Antique class to advance one year each calendar year.( AMC, Vol.16 #3 page 4)
A further policy statement was made on the motorcycles which the AMC recognized, as follows:
“ The AMC has, from its inception, accepted and recognized all makes of motorcycles which have. For whattever reason, survived and which have been deemed by their owner to be worthy of preservation and/or restoration. Recognition, respect, and status is given to the 'love affair' which can develop between a man and a machine. When any individual member of the AMC thinks highly enough of a particular motorcycle to preserve it, and to give it the attention, time, care, and expense to restore it, then the club willingly recognizes the machine. No motorcycle has ever been excluded. It would be consistent with the history of the Club and the thinking of its founders to continue appropriate recognition of all motorcycles whenever there exists a relationship between owner and machine which persuades the owner to preserve and restore the machine.”

1990 - The AMC year class groups for show judging were Antique (1885-1929), Post-Antique (1930 – 1945) and Post-War (1946-1955). There were additional Competition and Lightweight classes). The types of Trophies awarded in the first 3 judging groups were: 3 or 4 Best Restored, 1 Most Unique,1 Best Running Unrestored, 1 Best Running Restored, 1 Most Original, Long Distance, Oldest, Longest Distance Ridden.s.

!992 – The Judging system in the AMC changed radically to a 100 point comparison of a judged motorcycle to the original specification of that year, make and model. A series of 10 year class groups was done to facilitate operations, with judging done on 35 year-old and older motorcycles.

My own view is similar to the above quote on AMCA 1977 policy. I am not interested in "restoring to perfection and then putting an old bike into some sort of mausoleum or glass cage". I put the bikes into useable, running condition, use them carefully and with respect for their age, repair them when they need it and enjoy motorcycling with them. The bikes, by the way, are 91, 85, 82 and 51 years old. I don't have any "new" bikes, just have fun with the old ones.
AFJ

[D.A.Bagin]

i'm guessing not those horrid singles, but the twins definitely have a loyal following

My son has a 2004 XB12 Buell that we picked up for a song with 3100 miles on it 4-5 years ago. Only bike he has owned and doesn't have anything to compare it to but he seems to love it. I laid my fat little belly on it and took it for a short ride and thought it was a fun bike. He certainly did not buy it for any investment value but it was an affordable, good handling, good braking machine that he could have some fun on.

[Skirted]

I know this comes up often and some people will say the club has to grow and prosper. But seriously is a 1985 Honda 750 or a 1990 Kawasaki ninja or even a 1994 Harley sportster collectible? I will say no, never will be because they just made too many and they just don't have anything special about them. Is my 2003 Anniversary Softail going to be special, nope.

I have seen this in most automobiles past about 1978, it's just a car nothing special. Many classic car clubs drew the line at 1975. Here we are at 1983 and still going! Can't we just draw a line somewhere to preserve the whole purpose and integrity of the club. Go ahead and hit me with your best shot if you disagree.

Interesting thread.
Yea, I find myself scratching head when looking at styling, construction, and technology of an early 80s bike and trying to fit it into a classification called "antique". To recognize or classify machines recently coming into the 35 year old mark as "antique" it just doesn't fit. A small few may be collectible, but that doesn't make them antique.

I know we need to be careful anytime exclusions (4 letter word today) in a club are discussed but at what point does the integrity of any "antique" club become too compromised by adding machines/items that an overwhelming majority of people would look at and say "that's not an antique" because the technology is so similar to today.

This doesn't help much to clarify;
Webster's definition of antique
-existing since or belonging to earlier times
-being in the style or fashion of former times
-made in or representative of the work of an earlier period

Peace

[Steve Swan]

Interesting thread.
Yea, I find myself scratching head when looking at styling, construction, and technology of an early 80s bike and trying to fit it into a classification called "antique". To recognize or classify machines recently coming into the 35 year old mark as "antique" it just doesn't fit. A small few may be collectible, but that doesn't make them antique.

I know we need to be careful anytime exclusions (4 letter word today) in a club are discussed but at what point does the integrity of any "antique" club become too compromised by adding machines/items that an overwhelming majority of people would look at and say "that's not an antique" because the technology is so similar to today.

This doesn't help much to clarify;
Webster's definition of antique
-existing since or belonging to earlier times
-being in the style or fashion of former times
-made in or representative of the work of an earlier period

Peace

Really good point. AMCA is the ANTIQUE Motorcycle Club of America, maybe letting in newer bikes is one thing (since we already have and do) but never losing sight on the importance of keeping emphasis on the bikes of our forefathers.... in the context of motorcycles, when i think of "antique" my brain automatically goes to something really old and usually that's something at least before WW2 if not earlier.

[KNUCK]

When I started this thread it was to open our eyes to what the club is really about from the start. Great that there was such good input as to what is an antique. I think from what has been said here is that there has always been change to the club, and really most of the time for the good.

The time for another change is now. So to give us all time to settle in with the thought of a fixed time to say what an antique is here is my idea. Class 8 should be the end of it. Just that simple. No need for a class 9,10,etc. Anything beyond would be a pointless mockery to the club founding.

With mass production of today nothing will ever be an antique or unique for any reason. Judging value in the future will mean nothing. It will be like another show in the parking lot of a fast food dive. Everybody gets a participation award just drive on in.

I call upon our board to move on this as soon as reasonable to preserve the future for our club. Class 8 is enough already we really don't need a carbon fiber adorned motorcycle class some day.

[T. Cotten]

When I started this thread it was to open our eyes to what the club is really about from the start. Great that there was such good input as to what is an antique. I think from what has been said here is that there has always been change to the club, and really most of the time for the good.

The time for another change is now. So to give us all time to settle in with the thought of a fixed time to say what an antique is here is my idea. Class 8 should be the end of it. Just that simple. No need for a class 9,10,etc. Anything beyond would be a pointless mockery to the club founding.

With mass production of today nothing will ever be an antique or unique for any reason. Judging value in the future will mean nothing. It will be like another show in the parking lot of a fast food dive. Everybody gets a participation award just drive on in.

I call upon our board to move on this as soon as reasonable to preserve the future for our club. Class 8 is enough already we really don't need a carbon fiber adorned motorcycle class some day.

Just curious, Folks,..

Why should the next generation need the AMCA anyway?

Thanks in advance,..

....Cotten

[jorrow]

I beg to disagree. I'll guarantee you my 1996 road king is no more similar to whats new on the showroom today than a knuck is to a shovelhead. Its all a matter of perspective. The days of 2 guys in a wooden shed building machines for the public is gone. Time has marched on. If the youth is going to be able to afford an antique the 35 year criteria must remain the same. Personally I find changes that occur in the 80's and 90's very interesting. On another note, there was a 1913 Flying Merkel at Davenport for sale at 200K. How many of us would have loved to take this home? But its just not realistic for club expectations. I have old as well as newer bikes, and they all amaze me. There is a real danger here that youth will no longer care for these oil dripping underpowered machines that we adore, why compound it with more rules. Let people enjoy what they can attain.

[jorrow]

Excellent point Tom.

[RichO]

I disagree simply for the fact that though there may be many more units manufactured today how many stay unmodified in even the smallest way. Hard to find a pristine "as it came from the factory" example of anything today or yesterday.