Counting down to Oley

[TH47Indy]

One of the best looking Crockers I've seen!!Would have loved to see it in person.
500k seems way high no matter how cool it looks.

[govmule84]

This thing was cool, too:

trumpy.jpg

[JoJo357]

These previous Crocker owners are probably wishing they would have held on for a few more years!
1936-crocker-hemi-head-bonhams-2017-las-vegas-auction-42.JPG>>>>>>1939 Small tank $236,500 10-2006 LA Gooding & Co.
1936-crocker-hemi-head-bonhams-2017-las-vegas-auction-41.png.jpg>>>>>>1937 hemi $276,500 11-2006 LA Bonhams
*M.A.D.*

[govmule84]

They're pretty neat!

[Green Indian]

This thing was cool to see:[ATTACH=CONFIG]22029[/ATTACH]

Don't wanna think about what it might cost to get one, but I'm happy I finally saw one in real life!

I was offered a complete basket case Crocker about 15 years ago for $40,000. I did not have the money then but I sure wished I had found a way to buy it, better than the stock market and more fun to ride!

[JoJo357]

Always liked John Camerons*(Boozefighters)*(R.i.P.) highly modified 1936-37 Hemi Crocker cutdown. Had a modified cutdown JD frame, BSA tranny, and what looks like a 30's Indian Sport Scout Girder, plus gobs of custom one offs.
*As the old saying goes: Anyone can restore a Motorcycle...but it takes a Real Man to cut one up. hahaha

Harley -Davidson must have been concerned enough to consider Crocker a threat, because they had Joe Petrali, and a HD Factory Mechanic tear a Crocker Motor down looking for patent violations. None were ever discovered. Years ago, i remember reading that HD allegedly considered cutting orders from Kelsey Hayes, if they continued selling wheels to Albert Crocker.
p1000220.jpg
p1000213.jpg
*M.A.D.*

[exeric]

An old Florida boy name George E. Brown traded a post war Indian Chief for a Crocker. The guy who owned the Crocker thought it might be a Harley-Davidson. George came off as a dumb old Florida cracker, but he was as dumb as a fox, and knew what he was looking at. That was back in the early '70s. Personally, I'll never understand the Crocker virus, and put that disease in the same category as '36EL, Brough, and Porsche worship. The Crocker is a good looking bike, but certainly not in the 'Great' looking category.

[AFJ]

An old Florida boy name George E. Brown traded a post war Indian Chief for a Crocker. The guy who owned the Crocker thought it might be a Harley-Davidson. George came off as a dumb old Florida cracker, but he was as dumb as a fox, and knew what he was looking at. That was back in the early '70s. Personally, I'll never understand the Crocker virus, and put that disease in the same category as '36EL, Brough, and Porsche worship. The Crocker is a good looking bike, but certainly not in the 'Great' looking category.

So, have you ridden a Brough?
AFJ

[exeric]

No, but I have ridden modern Japanese sport bikes, and they would eat a Brough for lunch. But; that isn't why I love vintage motorcycles. Like I said, Crockers, and Broughs, are good looking bikes, and they have a prominent place in motorcycle history, but I believe much of that is hype, and legend and it plays well at Las Vegas auctions. I don't think any antique motorcycle can be quantified by modern standards of superiority (which are largely based on monetary value). Rarity doesn't mean much when it comes to the quality of Harley-Davidson, Indian, BMW, and Triumph that had an army of great engineers, sophisticated manufacturing, and access to quality material, and manufacturing process. I have a huge respect for Crocker, and Brough for making limited, (almost) hand made motorcycles, but they were not in the same league as the big companies that could afford the research, and experimental time that went into building high quality products. One of the reasons I made my critical comment was to create a dialogue. The great thing about our forum is it's a place to have fun, and educational exchanges. I would never denigrate the Crocker, or Brough as motorcycles; just the cult that has been built around them

[JoJo357]

No, but I have ridden modern Japanese sport bikes, and they would eat a Brough for lunch. But; that isn't why I love vintage motorcycles. Like I said, Crockers, and Broughs, are good looking bikes, and they have a prominent place in motorcycle history, but I believe much of that is hype, and legend and it plays well at Las Vegas auctions. I don't think any antique motorcycle can be quantified by modern standards of superiority (which are largely based on monetary value). Rarity doesn't mean much when it comes to the quality of Harley-Davidson, Indian, BMW, and Triumph that had an army of great engineers, sophisticated manufacturing, and access to quality material, and manufacturing process. I have a huge respect for Crocker, and Brough for making limited, (almost) hand made motorcycles, but they were not in the same league as the big companies that could afford the research, and experimental time that went into building high quality products. One of the reasons I made my critical comment was to create a dialogue. The great thing about our forum is it's a place to have fun, and educational exchanges. I would never denigrate the Crocker, or Brough as motorcycles; just the cult that has been built around them

Amen to that Brother!!!
*M.A.D.*

[TH47Indy]

I'm an Indian guy, and didn't know much, and still don't know much about the Broughs, but the first time I saw one in person I was hooked. I agree that you can't compare modern bike engineering to our vintage bikes, but when you see what was done and the talent of the engineerers from this past era without computers and the sharing of info that is available now it show how amazing these acomplishments were. The Brough suspension reminded me of my early Yamaha YZ 250 momoshock, and many of our current bikes were developed based on these based leveraging these past engineering master pieces.

Even today I can't image restoring my '47 Indian without the resources and advice I've found on this site.

I do agree with the "Vegas auction factor". But here's some info I found on that I beleive makes(somewhat) the case for the value of the Broughs and similar bikes. These "elavated prices" also adds to the value of our Indians and Harley's, although I don't ever plan on selling mine.

"Engineering and construction for which Brough Superiors were famous can be seen in this example's leading-link front suspension with driver-adjustable damping, nickel-plated side panels on the fuel tank, foot-operated gearshift, contoured saddlebags, and plunger rear suspension.

"Though renowned primarily for their fine craftsmanship, Brough Superiors also held many speed records during the 1920s and '30s, culminating in a 1937 run of nearly 170 mph on -- of course -- a modified version."

Still an Indian guy, but but really apreciate these other master pieces like the Crocker and Broughs!

[AFJ]

No, but I have ridden modern Japanese sport bikes, and they would eat a Brough for lunch. But; that isn't why I love vintage motorcycles. Like I said, Crockers, and Broughs, are good looking bikes, and they have a prominent place in motorcycle history, but I believe much of that is hype, and legend and it plays well at Las Vegas auctions. I don't think any antique motorcycle can be quantified by modern standards of superiority (which are largely based on monetary value). Rarity doesn't mean much when it comes to the quality of Harley-Davidson, Indian, BMW, and Triumph that had an army of great engineers, sophisticated manufacturing, and access to quality material, and manufacturing process. I have a huge respect for Crocker, and Brough for making limited, (almost) hand made motorcycles, but they were not in the same league as the big companies that could afford the research, and experimental time that went into building high quality products. One of the reasons I made my critical comment was to create a dialogue. The great thing about our forum is it's a place to have fun, and educational exchanges. I would never denigrate the Crocker, or Brough as motorcycles; just the cult that has been built around them

Certainly one would expect that the Brough Superior motorcycles made by George Brough from 1920 until 1940 would not be as powerful or as quick as recently made motorcycles. (I am not discussing here the so-called Brough Superiors being made in France by a small firm purporting to have bought the company registration of a firm called "Brough Superior Engineering" which was wound up around 1983.)
I joined the small Brough Superior Club and went to their 1968 annual rally. I found a group of enthusiasts who still rode their elderly motorcycles as regular transport and saw a very old man going round to each owner and their bike talking to them about their Brough and how it was running. It was George Brough. I found that his company had stopped making motorcycles in order to make crankshafts and camshafts for the Rolls-Royce Merlin engines that powered the Spitfires, Hurricanes, Mustangs, Mosquitos and Lancasters that helped win WW2. And that after the war his company then went on to do contract engineering work but continued to make and supply parts needed to keep some of the 3,200 Brough Superior motorcycles he had made before the war running. He also had a repair an overhaul service for the motorcycles he had made. His enthusiasm for "his" motorcycles only ceased at his death in 1970. And the Brough Superior Club took over the supply of parts to keep Broughs running and the latest list of spare part available from the club is 17 pages long (single spaced).
I managed to find a dismantled 1938 Brough Superior SS80 in 1969 - got it running in a few months. Have had it licensed and insured and on the road every year since 1971. (overhauls, rebuilds and re-paints done in the snowy winters.)
Not a fast bike but will pull a single seat sidecar up to 70 mph and on solo gearing will reach 85. 50-55 mpIg. on regular 87 octane fuel and it was easy to reset carb and magneto for the unleaded gas when it came in.
Hard to ask for more from a bike 2 years older than me.
AFJ

[Jerry Wieland]

AFJ That is a neat story. If you haven't, you should write it down for future generations. Jerry

Certainly one would expect that the Brough Superior motorcycles made by George Brough from 1920 until 1940 would not be as powerful or as quick as recently made motorcycles. (I am not discussing here the so-called Brough Superiors being made in France by a small firm purporting to have bought the company registration of a firm called "Brough Superior Engineering" which was wound up around 1983.)
I joined the small Brough Superior Club and went to their 1968 annual rally. I found a group of enthusiasts who still rode their elderly motorcycles as regular transport and saw a very old man going round to each owner and their bike talking to them about their Brough and how it was running. It was George Brough. I found that his company had stopped making motorcycles in order to make crankshafts and camshafts for the Rolls-Royce Merlin engines that powered the Spitfires, Hurricanes, Mustangs, Mosquitos and Lancasters that helped win WW2. And that after the war his company then went on to do contract engineering work but continued to make and supply parts needed to keep some of the 3,200 Brough Superior motorcycles he had made before the war running. He also had a repair an overhaul service for the motorcycles he had made. His enthusiasm for "his" motorcycles only ceased at his death in 1970. And the Brough Superior Club took over the supply of parts to keep Broughs running and the latest list of spare part available from the club is 17 pages long (single spaced).
I managed to find a dismantled 1938 Brough Superior SS80 in 1969 - got it running in a few months. Have had it licensed and insured and on the road every year since 1971. (overhauls, rebuilds and re-paints done in the snowy winters.)
Not a fast bike but will pull a single seat sidecar up to 70 mph and on solo gearing will reach 85. 50-55 mpIg. on regular 87 octane fuel and it was easy to reset carb and magneto for the unleaded gas when it came in.
Hard to ask for more from a bike 2 years older than me.
AFJ

[exeric]

Your relationship with your Brough is very admirable, AFJ and is the essence of what our vintage motorcycle obsession is all about. I apologize for the cynicism that came off in my initial post as that attitude never makes a cogent point of view. Also, I have no right to criticize people who don't do their own work because there are many factors, and physical impediment that can make it difficult for people to be vertically integrated in this complex hobby. We all love these motorcycles in our own way. And thanks for the great story about George Brough.

[govmule84]

AFJ That is a neat story. If you haven't, you should write it down for future generations. Jerry

^Do this, please! I can help if needed.