Requirements to participate in Road Runs

[fillibuster]

I have to agree with RichO. The hosts of any event should be given better credit, (imo). Those road runs are as fine as it gets, and your monetary support to the host chapter should be regarded as small change given the cost of banquets and gifts, and especially for the organizational work. If you intend to be thrifty try camping instead of the hotel. The hotel is usually a greater fee than the registration. But whatever you do, do make a road run at least once. You'll probably be on another.

[RichO]

Yes, you can do that. But what about all the work that the host chapter put in to planning and putting on the road run. What about the banquet with all your fellow riders. What about all the little things they provide for the regular signed up riders. I've rode on north of 28 national road runs since the first in 1987. My chapter has hosted nine. I have met fellow members from all over the country and enjoyed their back roads as they have mine. Since I started riding fifty years ago I've had to carry my registration and proof of insurance in my wallet. Not to show the sign in AMCA member but the police if by some strange reason they ask me to show it to them. I fail to find the difference if the hosting chapter needs to see it too. If you haven't been on a National road run please try it. It'll open up vistas that life is to short to miss. Down the road less traveled is where you'll find me.

[36 knuck man]

It's a free country, I think, so just show up stay in the same motel(s) and ride along, no one can stop you from doing that, you just don't get the tee shirt and free meals.

[AFJ]

I went on the Alexandria Bay RR back in 07 and in the pre sign up requirements is was very specifically mentioned to make sure we had both documents with us as part of the run went into Canada and Canadian border official would not let you cross with out them. Even with them they searched (sidecars mostly) and verified some of the riders info and their bikes. I forgot to bring my insurance card and had to call my company (Hagerty) and have them fax a copy to the host hotel the night before.
Believe me I understand your frustration but if everyone followed the rules on registration and insurance to start with, most of these problems would go away. As I said before some folks will register one bike and simply switch tags to ride one of the many bikes they own and that bike is not legally registered or insured and when they have an accident then the mess really begins. Accidents have happened on every road run I have been on. Sometimes it is between friends and there are no issues but sometimes it doesn't work out that way. Also JC Taylor required this as part of the umbrella policy for the club which covers the National as well as the chapters. Again I know all of this seems overboard but every time someone sues it only makes the requirements harder for all the rest of us. You had every right to make the post and be frustrated, but now I hope that some or the reasoning has been made clearer. We may not like it but we have to find a way to live with it. Happy riding!!!

Tom (Rollo) Hardy
AMCA #12766

Tom,
I was at the '07 Alexandria Bay RR as well, and when heading home to Canada the day after (over the same crossing point) was quizzed at the border as to whether the tires on my old bike had been "bought in the US"? (If so, they would charge me duty on the tires.) The tires looked relatively new as I had done an overhaul the winter before and put new Avons on specifically for the '07 season and the Alex. Bay Run. And I had purchased them in Canada. But, of course, who carries old receipts around with them to prove that? Luckily, I thought to point out that Customs law in Canada exempts parts imported for vehicles over 25 years of age from any duty and the motorcycle in question was 69 years old. End of Inquisition.
Before 9/11 crossing the Canada/US border was a simple matter.
Ride Safe!
AFJ

[fillibuster]

I checked a couple of my permanent registrations in Ohio last year and one of them was not in the computer, it was from the 80's, I took the title and registration (with NO expiration date) in and had to re-register it cost me about $30. The other was in the computer, they could not explain but I had to pay!

I think the absence of "activity" renders some record-keeping dormant, or dead. I'm fairly certain I titled a chief frame about 15 years ago, but the treasurer says no. Other vehicles long-since terminated are still there, and my deceased ex is often listed as owner. ..... NUTS!
So I'm considering doing a confirmation (will cost) of all of my effects annually, just to keep the state's records straight. This would include some motorcycles that are "under construction", not licensed.
Iowa "terminated" the record of a Kawasaki I bought that hadn't been licensed since 1990 (barn find!). Since it hadn't been licensed in over 10 years they declined to put it in their computer records, and they couldn't find a copy for me. So I'm believing one should have a maintenance program of his effects, lest the state disappoint you.

[LouieMCman]

I'm running a permanent historical plate, and the vehicle registration has made me nervous lately. I'm not so sure that my state's records are reliable. Gaining a fresh copy of that registration has been frustrating. It is NOT difficult to prove a long history of insurance on the bike, as that has been through an agent whom I've trusted for over 25 years (hope he doesn't retire).
Thanks for the reminder, though! Time flies, and September is just around the corner.
As to your liberties/responsibilities, try to convince yourself that you have a reasonable balance.

I checked a couple of my permanent registrations in Ohio last year and one of them was not in the computer, it was from the 80's, I took the title and registration (with NO expiration date) in and had to re-register it cost me about $30. The other was in the computer, they could not explain but I had to pay!

[Rollo]

Jack
Unfortunately our society has turned to litigation to solve everything! Not a good turn of events but that is where we are today! I have sat through several Presidents meetings at Wauseon at which the issue of insurance and the requirements of the National and the chapters was discussed at great length. The policy is a long standing one and may not have been enforced by some chapters, as required, but a spate of incidents and lawsuits prompted the recent increased vigilance at sign up for these documents. I went on the Alexandria Bay RR back in 07 and in the pre sign up requirements is was very specifically mentioned to make sure we had both documents with us as part of the run went into Canada and Canadian border official would not let you cross with out them. Even with them they searched (sidecars mostly) and verified some of the riders info and their bikes. I forgot to bring my insurance card and had to call my company (Hagerty) and have them fax a copy to the host hotel the night before.
Believe me I understand your frustration but if everyone followed the rules on registration and insurance to start with, most of these problems would go away. As I said before some folks will register one bike and simply switch tags to ride one of the many bikes they own and that bike is not legally registered or insured and when they have an accident then the mess really begins. Accidents have happened on every road run I have been on. Sometimes it is between friends and there are no issues but sometimes it doesn't work out that way. Also JC Taylor required this as part of the umbrella policy for the club which covers the National as well as the chapters. Again I know all of this seems overboard but every time someone sues it only makes the requirements harder for all the rest of us. You had every right to make the post and be frustrated, but now I hope that some or the reasoning has been made clearer. We may not like it but we have to find a way to live with it. Happy riding!!!

Tom (Rollo) Hardy
AMCA #12766

[fillibuster]

"Gentleman Jack" (happens to be my favorite novocaine) is what I thought in reading your post to Rollo, Jack. You're a gentleman after all!
Next coffee, or novocaine, is on me, if you would accept.
Back to plates, commercial's here are about 4x the money in the class B league, so terminating a crippled truck and transferring to a substitute does require a visit to DOT/Treasurer, but at least the balance of annual cost is credited to the substitute. I hope Texas respects that as well. .. On non-commercial plates we're S.O.L., no refund.
Something else creeps back into memory: Seems Johnnie Law likes to be a friend of the motorist clubs (once in a while anyway). On one of our road runs they were indeed an asset when it counted. Wouldn't we prefer to stay in their "good graces" with a little extra self-discipline/control/requirements? .... Or would most prefer they were out-of-sight, out-of-mind? ... at certain times, anyway? Like during a little hot-doggin' ?

[Jack K]

Rollo,

Thanks for getting me and anybody I mislead straight on the vehicle operator requirements for Virginia. Please see in post #1 where I indicated this may not be correct. As I admitted in post #1, I was steamed when I wrote that email and am guilty of passing along hearsay without doing due diligence and I do beg your pardon.

And as I stated in post #1, I intend to supply the documents demanded by the AMCA. I don't like it but I'll do it. These documents may have always been required but nobody asked me for them until the last 2 maybe 3 years and then only proof of insurance.

Just so it's not a surprise to anyone when it happens, no amount of documents carried or waivers signed is going to keep the AMCA from losing a law suit. However, that is not a point I was trying to make. Point is I am fully within the requirements to operate a motor vehicle in the state where I reside. Since this is a duty of the States (not Federal), I am "legal" nationwide. If I wish to go to Canada in or on my vehicle, I would have to have a registration receipt but this isn't Canada.

Referring again to post #1, I said I was probably going to regret submitting this post,,,. At least about that I was right.

[Rollo]

Jack,

You cited Virginia and said they don't require registrations and proof of insurance. As a life long Virginia resident, I can assure you that they require both. I also have gone on many AMCA Roads Runs ( just came back from the New Hampshire one) and this has been the requirement for years. I don't know what they do in Texas but I do know what they do in Virginia as I have over 15 vehicle tagged and insured here. I have permanent antique tags and we do no have to go through annual safety inspections as required for vehicles without them, but we do have to sign a verification that the bike is equipped with all the properly functioning safety equipment at the time of manufacture. I keep mine in a plastic baggy on my bikes so I never have the fumble around to find them when asked ( and I have been ). There are a ton of folks out their who "register" one bike and simply switch the tags to what ever they want to ride and never insure them. Frankly I don't want some person to hit me on my bike and not have insurance and riding an "non-legal" bike. Trust me I have been on both sides of that equation and as a matter of fact it happened a couple of times on the New Hampshire Run. There is a reason for all this so if you want to participate in a National Road Run have your paper work straight and with you when you, show up because you will be required to provide it for sure.

Tom (Rollo) Hardy
AMCA #12766

[fillibuster]

When you veer off your own topic you get what you have coming.

Jack, I apologize. I only meant it sportingly.
But again, I'll stand by my last statement regarding unregistered and un-insured bikes getting into road runs. It was more than 10 years ago, and there were no casualties, we all were fortunate. That good fortune couldn't last.

[Jack K]

... (so you can HAVE your texas! sarc)

When you veer off your own topic you get what you have coming.

[fillibuster]

quote: "purchased registration remains with this vehicle and
will not be refunded if the vehicle is sold."

here in SD, if I trade it in or sell it, the commercial plates are refunded by the amount of time left on them, i.e. 6 months left = 50% refund. ... (so you can HAVE your texas! sarc)

Not considered yet: would any jokesters/independents out there choose to ride a bike (on a road run) that otherwise is not licensed or insured? I have not, but I know a few who have. Perhaps our managers know that this can happen, and Murphy's law, you know, "if it can, it will".

[AFJ]

Jack K.


How does a Texas cop determine if your bike insurance is in force? do you not have to carry "proof of insurance" and an ownership document of some sort?

AFJ

According to the TexasSure program of the Texas state govt. and their "Frequently asked questions" section of their website -

"If I have insurance coverage and am unable to provide proof of insurance, can this program help?"

"For the drivers benefit, the proof of insurance card should be carried at all times. The law requires "the motorist or operator of a vehicle to provide evidence of financial responsibility." Further, Transportation Code 601.053(c) as added by the 83rd Texas Legislature requires a peace officer with access to the verification program to check insurance coverage through TexasSure prior to issuing a citation to a driver without their insurance card. It is important to note that not all law enforcement agencies have access to the system.

In addition, drivers should be aware that there may be other situations where drivers are required to show their proof of insurance card."

I take it from the above that your motorcycle insurance company has issued, or will issue, your "proof of insurance card". Presumably that card also indicates you are insured in other states, as well. If you self-insure, as is possible in Texas, presumably you have documentation through that process of depositing surety.

AFJ

[Jack K]

For the last year or two, chapters hosting road runs have asked for proof of liability insurance on the bike or bikes that will be used on the road runs. That has not been as problem for me because the State of Texas requires this of all it's residents,,, but what business is it of the AMCA?

AFJ, as I wrote in the first post.

4 Ridin' Rev
So if I understand you correctly, for non-commercial vehicles in Texas the plate and sticker are the proof of registration. If that's correct, it should be possible to direct the registrar to the Texas DMV website (or whatever branch of the Texas bureaucracy handles such things...) where they could read the relevant provision. That or go online yourself, print the relevant statute or section of the code and send it to them. That might be easier for you than trying to get a copy of the receipt...

As it happens, I just got a new registration sticker for the plate on my pickup ( i think if you are a Texan you must own a pickup) and the last 3 lines read:
THIS RECEIPT TO BE CARRIED IN ALL COMMERCIAL VEHICLES.
purchased registration remains with this vehicle and
will not be refunded if the vehicle is sold.

Capital letters were not used by me for emphasis, it is printed that way on the receipt. Strangest thing about that is the last two lines. County tax assessors and state DMV folks want everyone to know you are to remove the license plate from the vehicle when you sell it. Presumably to encourage the new owner to purchase a new license plate maybe.