Hot Rod style questions- period mod

[AdminGuy]

I should ask Richard Ostrander these questions - but I'm putting it up in hope of some response. Does Rich own a computer? So anyone - jump in.

Much discussion and arguments abound in my family regarding these three questions. Some things are apparently blurry pre-1965-6.

1. Approx. what year did the up-swept pipes come into favor? is that a late 60's chopper thing or does it pre-date that. Spawned from the drag strip cars? late 50's? Looks cool, but I don't feel you would have seen it in 1948 on a bike.

2. When did flat black paint jobs come into favor? Is that a 70's modern hotrod thing or does it date much earilier? late 40's? I just can't see it in the late 40's earily 50's. It looks pretty cool w/ colored pin stripeing - but I have a real tough time with it being correct for something older that the earily 70's.

3. What inspired the gas tank darts ( I call them darts) - paint job, that are so commonly seen on bobbers. Where did that come from? Airplanes my guess.

[LouieMCman]

I saw a chopper book put out by American Iron I think, that has about 4 pages of old chopper pictures from the '50's and 60's. I was looking for ideas for my upcoming Knuckle bobber. Check it out, cool pics.

Louie

[AFJ]

Re: Hot Rod style questions- period mod

Originally posted by AdminGuy
I

1. Approx. what year did the up-swept pipes come into favor? is that a late 60's chopper thing or does it pre-date that. Spawned from the drag strip cars? late 50's? Looks cool, but I don't feel you would have seen it in 1948 on a bike.

2. When did flat black paint jobs come into favor? Is that a 70's modern hotrod thing or does it date much earilier? late 40's? I just can't see it in the late 40's earily 50's. It looks pretty cool w/ colored pin stripeing - but I have a real tough time with it being correct for something older that the earily 70's.

Upswept exhaust pipes were factory standard on many makes from the early 1930's until WWII.
Earlier, the 1869 Roper had an upswept exhaust.

A dull black finish was common on some military motorcycles used in WWI on the Palestine front.

AFJ

[Buster]

Flat black

I am partial to flat black bikes, really shows off the mechanical parts. I ride a flat black scooter. I was in middle school and high school from approx 1959-65 and remember flat primer paint jobs on scooters and cars, but mostly cars. The reason for primer paint jobs was the vehicles were never finished enough to do final paint job or final paint job was always temporarly out of reach financinally. Vehicles would be under construction and driven for years with primer. They were always a work in progress. In many cases, other details of car such as firewall, interior, and fender wells were painted the planned final color and body was left primer and driven that way. I remember primer paint jobs were often referred to as "black velvet". Pin striping on top of primer was common.

[AdminGuy]

Thanks guys, I'll keep an eye open for book Louie. Where can I get it?
Got to do a ride with Gil Aramas (Booze Fighter) he has nice Knuck bobber. It go the chrome treatment in the 70's I think. Super nice guy, very cool bike.

Allan - Thanks. I appreciate the knowledge. "AMERICAN" bikes w/ pipe exit above rear axel. I would think mid 60's. A guy back from war 46-52 approx. would mod to mimic a racer I'd think. If any pipe change at all - maybe just drop the muffler? or put on race pipes. Two singles.

Thanks Buster- I'd like to trace back the "Black Velvet" if possible. If that's the case. Guys stripping down Ford Coupes certainly did it in late 40's SoCal. But on a bike I'd think that most guys would just home paint it what ever they felt was sporty at the time. And that makes me think bright color. As most guys would have had fill of OD flat Green. I don't think I would have seen metalic silver - would I? Solid colors only?

Well I was just looking at my project and wondering what a flat black base with gloss black darts and a pin gold separating the two. pin-up girls front sides. I have org. paint gloss black bobbed rear fender which I'm keeping as is. So I'm trying to work with that. No extra chrome on bike- bone stock. Seat is Chestnut brown.

Silver base would work - but it's been done alot. I want to keep the rusty, dull, flat, look. I want local people to visually get the message that THIS is an old bike. "Note the 'hand shift' young man". I was even thinking of ageing the tank paint (dull down) match rear fender. I gotta be a little different -and have some fun with it. Was really curious if I could get away with flat black. So ya, I think that will all work. I haven't had an all black bike in a while. So it should be fun. Kinda sinister- but fun. It's not a fast bike, but by golly - it will LOOK FAST! Hee-hee. I could go black gloss with red darts?
What do you guys think?

[INLINE4NUT]

way back when my money was real tight and you could buy an old HD for nearly snot I had a nice FLH that was painted flat black, the beauty of it was every friday it got a new paint job froom a can in under a half hour and only cost a couple of bucks then I was stylin for the girls!!!!
Flat Black paint jobs have been around for a loooong time cheap& easy!
Now Im no expert but I do remember seeing a picture of my father on a FOUR after the war or sometime in that time frame with a set of home made up sweep pipes!!! How rad is that! So Id have to say the time line for pipes and Black paint is fuzzy at best!!

[rousseau]

Buster is right on

Buster, according to the dates you gave,You and I are very close to the same age. The "flat black" paint was nothing more than primer, exactly as you described. I don't feel this was "in favor" back in the late 50s early 60s but just as you said, "unfinished ".
The popularity of "modern " flat paint jobs on motorcycles can probably be credited to Russell Mitchell of Exile Cycles.

[Kojack]

I haven't been around as long as some of you guys but I can remember it the same way. Black primer was never really "in favor", it was just a quick low buck way to give a nice even look to unfinished work. I'll also mention that a lot of the amateur paint jobs came out kind of flat although that wasn't the intention. My Dad told me about painting his buddy's pickup with an Electrolux vacuum cleaner spraygun, lots of runs and low sheen areas. I still have the "gun" in the basement. I can remember having a hard time getting glossy paint jobs from the old spray cans too. I had a semi gloss purple bicycle because of them.

[surfdude]

hey admin guy -- greetings from snowy new england. i take it you're talking about the indian. any pics of the work-in-progress, or would you rather keep us in suspense?

ken

[c.o.]

Me thinks that Paul's cauldron is smoking and something wicked is brewing! Pics would be good!

[LouieMCman]

An interesting note, I bought a '20 HD sport model about ten years ago and it was painted all black. Someone had painted the thing without even taking any parts off, just sprayed everything but the wheels. When I took a few parts off I found the original paint and pinstripe under all the black. After many hours and various techniques of removal, I have a original paint Winners Circle bike. So someone in the past did me a favor by saving the original paint. The man I bought the bike from ask me just a few days ago in Eustis how the project is going and was very surprised when I told him it was an original paint winners circle bike.

Louie

[Carl N. Olsen]

Louie,
I have a 41 knuckle that some one put a quickie paintjob on years ago, overspray on the engine cases, nice flight red under the emblems, etc. What are some good methods of removal without damage to the original finish?

[LouieMCman]

Hi Carl
Very good question. I tried a few different paint removers, sand papers, steel wool, but the thing that worked the best for me was lightly bead blasting then a good cleaning and a flat clear coat to protect. I would like to hear other peoples methods, I sure there is many good ways to get the unwanted paint off. And of course you can match up the old paint and make to look old.....whoops not supposed to say that...it's an ORIGINAL paint bike.

Louie

[AdminGuy]

I heard that laying a small thinner soaked rag over an area to loosen it up, and then rubbing it down so as to remove top layer. I like louies' method. But would really scare me "lightly bead blasting". I'm chicken.

I capped my time tonight at 3hrs and peeled off a drawing to illustrate my little 640 project. Drawings OK - it does the job. I think you can see why I'm not real excited to introduce another color to the bike. So the flat black works for me in this case. Gloss up front, flat on back half.

Hopefully the drawing will inspire a few guys to push on with scout bobber projects. My Scout is in transition. I just want to get it running!

How many states is a sideways plate illegal in? Can I do that? Was that a 60's chopper thing? Or does it pre-date that?

Option is to run IND light up top and tuck the plate under with sep. plate lighting. Or an alum. body Sparto I guess.

I'd also like to stick some RZ350 baffles into the foodgrade stainless straight pipes if possible. Any thoughts or suggestions along these lines?

I went to Exile web site. First off - what a painful looking ad campaign these guys have. I feel sorry for them. Is that supposed to be cool? Who's the target market? 12yr olds? Second, the variations on a theme that they produce with that really ugly engine reminded me alot of a Triton that I helped build many years ago. Clip-on bars? http://www.unityequipe.com/html/gallery.html
Tritons have good lines (they look good) and handle really well. I wish S&S and Harley would supress the engineers and call in an industrial designer and redesign the heads of engines. MAN! I get tired real quick looking at the square boxes on top. Just fake it like the modern Indian guys did. At least the round covers look a little more interesting. Willy G. Where are you?

OK, I'm off the soap box.

[bobdo]

Hey Everybody,
Damn long winter.... Here's my two cents. I always thought the "dart" paint job
originally came from the air races during the 30's 40's. Here in Cleveland we had
the Thompson Trophy races. As an example, the GeeBee had a red dart on white, my personal favorite. I would love to get a radial Wasp engine in a bike frame!
I'm with you on the flat black look. If i ever get my current project done, i hope to do the frame flat. The reason for this post, since flat paint (primer), is main purpose is to adhere the top coat & fill, it is porous. This allows moisture to get to the metal & rust. You might consider priming, then a gloss top coat, then final coat of primer. Then the gloss coat becomes a moisture barrier. Hopefully some pro painters will join in & let us know if this is necessary, or if I just think too much.
I really need heat in my garage. Bob