Youth Program Coordinator . . . Resignation ? ? ?

[shelbyinparadise]

Thank you Gary for your guidance here on location of threads. As Keith said there needs to be a place for chapter members or individual members to be heard about issues after the first contact does not resolve an issue. I remember well how Bruce Palmer's thread about the trouble developing in Florida over Eustis first got me active on forum as an affected Vendor and Sunshine Chapter member. Things do not go away on their own, but lack of clear posting of facts can lead others uninformed of details forming and acting on false information.

I have stated before their is no recourse in the P & P except to report perceived misdeeds, to local Club officials, then to National Directors for disposition, without any public disclosure that a problem was ever brought to the Clubs attention.

Did Buck Carson have a reason for his public resignation? I believe with my past knowledge of similar incidents, that Buck did not only have a reason but a Right and obligation as a Public Figure to explain his position to all of his friends and admirers. It seems to me the best way for the Board to approach starting a similar radio Program would have been to discuss the idea with Buck and enlist his opinion and help. The perception of impropriety is personal to someone that creates something from scratch, within or outside of the Club. A honest Perceived slap in the face hurts the same as the actual deed. The National Board in my opinion should be more respectful of the creativity of its members.

Again Gary and Keith, thanks for being open to working for the betterment of our club. Shelby

[CCT]

I did watch the Facebook rant that went on for bout a week. When the tide started shifting & questions were asked regarding what work did Buck actually do as Youth Coordinator the page was wiped clean. It is my understanding Buck was the one to wipe the Facebook page. It is my understanding feeling were hurt over the radio station inquiry & that anger was directed towards one person the current President of the AMCA. So why quit as Youth Coordinator? what dose one ever accomplish by quitting? If I see something that needs changed I work at changing it, I don't quit
Craig

[fillibuster]

We're going to have to let this all just settle out. The season is on, meets and runs, fun stuff, and I know my peers don't have time for human-nature distractions. Some of us are drawn to this, most are not. While we care about this current drama, it is not the end-all be-all issue of the month. It wasn't here "yesterday", and it won't be here in the near future, because it is behind the scenes, in the costume department, or make-up, ... or casting (yeah, casting).
Nobody won a prize from this, and it's doubtful there will be one given. The prize will be earned by all of us collectively, when we move on with what has been good, and that is, primarily, the focus on the bike. Take a look around, and we can see a good number of people who have been held in high regard but who are also human, who have not won all the votes, but who endure because it's not really about the votes. Bike don't care about no dam votes. We're just people, we die and go away.
Good luck to AMCA Facebook, and those who share there. Good luck to Davenport, and New Smegma, Eustis, (anybody else wanna some good luck?), all-a-ya-clowns, have a rockin' great year!

[4 Ridin' Rev]

I've finally had the time to read all of the posts to this thread. I followed the threads in question on FB, tried to contribute in a positive way and inadvertently really ticked off one of the other participants! Now that the dust has more or less settled, I have some thoughts.

I'm 61 and was dragged onto FB kicking and screaming! I don't have kids or grandkids and really didn't and maybe still don't "get" it. I'm President of the Indian Four Cylinder Club and we have the same concerns as the AMCA about aging membership and the difficulty of attracting younger folks. It's maybe even harder for us because there are no 'entry level' Fours! We were approaching the Club's 50th Anniversary and weren't sure that we'd make it. We elected a new Treasurer who was very tech savvy and among other things, she set us up a FB group. I was less than enthusiastic... she basically shamed me into joining it! The group now has over 70 members and has proven to be a really good way to communicate within our Club. It's actually fun, too. The younger members especially appreciate it, though 'young' in the 4 Club is anyone under 50!

The whole unfortunate mess between Buck and the AMCA Board seems to me to have been caused by a massive communication breakdown caused by failures on both sides to recognize generational differences. Buck's in his early 20's - he lives in a really different world than I do! He and his generation do business differently than old coots like me (and the AMCA President...) They tend to operate with a completely different set of expectations, especially when it comes to communication! Overnight is way too long to wait for a reply to an email, and a couple of days is like something is really wrong. Many in Buck's generation expect some kind of response RIGHT NOW! These guys don't wait for a committee to meet and write letters. And many of them really don't understand us old farts that think that's the way things should be done!

So if the AMCA is serious about wanting to appeal to enthusiasts in their 20's, like it or not, understand it or not, all of the Board needs to be on FB, President included. This forum will still likely be preferred by many and that's fine. The more channels for communication the better. But the Board is really kidding itself if it thinks FB and the other social media are going to go away. Adapt or go the way of the dinosaurs! (For those of who don't know me - I'm a Presbyterian minister - I know something about organizations that fail to respond to changes around them...)

[shelbyinparadise]

I think it would be very hard for anyone to doubt Buck Carson's commitment to the youth program despite all that has been said in defense of the BoD leadership that pushed Buck AWAY if you will read column on page 72, May - June issue 2015

Please do not stop at the first sentence here, but read with an open mind the Article the EX youth director 23 year old Buck Carson wrote. The level of maturity and enthusiasm, along with a well written article leaves little doubt how serious this MAN was in trying to overcome the obstacles and lack of funding put in his way by the National Leaders, who can not even "get" the message Buck was putting out to the below 50 crowd. It is fitting to have this Article to come out after he was gone to show how hard he was trying. Buck was not the first younger person run off but in my opinion the most educitated and qualified. The National Board seems to be trying to run a Boy Scout Camp from their nursing home office. Face Book too hard for an educated retired Lawyer or just does not want to see what is being said by 16,500 AMCA face Book Members. Next thing we will have to do is mail in to his secretary all correspondence because the rules say we can not email anymore because of the "reply all" feature might upset someone.

Can anyone spot any hint that friction has been building when anyone mentions the Cherokee Chapter starting a pilot program to see what works at the local level, without micro management from one or more leaders from National.

An out reach membership program started and proved to work great in Texas area, was judged a failure because of the experience of one leader in Pittsburg area not being positive of getting people to drive over 60 miles to go to an event. We got people that came from Both coasts for our National Road run and now our Regional Pate "Concourse De Pate" and Swap meet as well as one day events of a social nature.

The Cherokee Chapter "Future of our Sport" program to attract new people was Funded to start from a generous donation of a Full Dress used Harley Davidson to be raffled off to start the program Budget by our Chapter President Steve Klein. This was quickly nixed by the National Board as a legal problem if someone got hurt on the given away Motorcycle, and was also negatively talked about by some leaders because Steve did not donate a 35 year old antique Motorcycle instead of a running drivable Motorcycle that still would be the same argued legal problem.

Buck Carson was invited to speak at our last Cherokee Chapter Board Meeting May 3, 2015 and discuss the latest progress working as National Youth Director, and he reported the positive and negative things going on he was directly involved with.
He Hinted to us that there was an announcement pending about his position, but being a Man of High Honor, He would not share anything before he made the public comments. No cheap talk, no BS, nothing said he did not personally hear said.

At that Board Meeting the problems between the local Chapter and the National Board was discussed, and several options were presented, no action taken at that time. Shelby Withrow, Membership and Events Director ( Hope to see many friends at our Meet and Greet Booth at Davenport )

[BoschZEV]

the National Leaders, who can not even "get" the message Buck was putting out to the below 50 crowd.

The National Board seems to be trying to run a Boy Scout Camp from their nursing home office.

Face Book too hard for an educated retired Lawyer or just does not want to see what is being said by 16,500 AMCA face Book Members.

Please take this as a friendly suggestion, but insulting people rarely brings about desired change.

Also, pointing out perceived problems without also suggesting realistic solutions usually comes across as whining or sour grapes. Personally, I think the fact that prices of Cyclone board track racers are so high is an extremely serious problem, because it keeps me from owning one, but since I can't think of a solution to that problem I avoid complaining about it. If there are serious problems at the national level, what are the problems, and what are the proposed solutions?

This was quickly nixed by the National Board as a legal problem if someone got hurt on the given away Motorcycle,

Are you saying it wasn't a potential legal problem and for some reason the Board made up this excuse? If so, why would they do that?

Again, I really do hope this post is taken as a friendly suggestion in the hopes people with wide experience, as you seem to have, can offer constructive criticism in a useful way to help move the organization upwards and onwards.

[shelbyinparadise]

Please take this as a friendly suggestion, I have no problem with a friendly suggestion and welcome such but insulting people rarely brings about desired change.

Also, pointing out perceived problems without also suggesting realistic solutions usually comes across as whining or sour grapes. If there are serious problems at the national level, what are the problems, and what are the proposed solutions? We have lost several attempts to bring in the younger people by using the adult children of some of our best members; Matt, Matt, Brittany, now Buck and if we do not examine the mistakes or failures of the past how do we expect a different result. If no one is willing to speak openly seeking solutions or admit maybe the leaders do not understand the tools of the younger people use, and the real problem is not understood by these leaders?

Are you saying it wasn't a potential legal problem and for some reason the Board made up this excuse? If so, why would they do that? In the South maybe we are just simple about the legal stuff, like a hold harmless agreement to the local chapter by the winner and in the form approved by the National President or the Club Legal Council. Having obtained 4 US Patents in my career as a Senior Research Engineer, I have worked very close with some of the greatest legal minds in the country protecting my rights to products I invented. This leads me to believe that a simple legal document would protect the club. If memory serves me right the National Club allowed a WLA Basket case to be given away as a prize for the youth program.

Again, I really do hope this post is taken as a friendly suggestion in the hopes people with wide experience, as you seem to have, can offer constructive criticism in a useful way to help move the organization upwards and onwards.

I hope you can understand where I am coming from, at 68 I do not have that many years left to make a difference after surviving Colon Cancer surgery 3 years ago. I first joined this club in 1974/1975, And until Davenport and Eustis directly affected me as a Member of both local chapters, I was content to just follow along.

I agree you can attract more flies with honey, but I am not after flies, I am after improvement, and step 1 is get people talking about problems, and only Chapter Officers see the problems and has to deal with them, while others enjoy blissful ignorance that a problem exists

Again I accept the comments with my eyes and mind wide open. Shelby Withrow, Membership and Events Director, Cherokee Chapter.

[shelbyinparadise]

I've finally had the time to read all of the posts to this thread. I followed the threads in question on FB, tried to contribute in a positive way and inadvertently really ticked off one of the other participants! Now that the dust has more or less settled, I have some thoughts.

I'm 61 and was dragged onto FB kicking and screaming! I don't have kids or grandkids and really didn't and maybe still don't "get" it. I'm President of the Indian Four Cylinder Club and we have the same concerns as the AMCA about aging membership and the difficulty of attracting younger folks. It's maybe even harder for us because there are no 'entry level' Fours! We were approaching the Club's 50th Anniversary and weren't sure that we'd make it. We elected a new Treasurer who was very tech savvy and among other things, she set us up a FB group. I was less than enthusiastic... she basically shamed me into joining it! The group now has over 70 members and has proven to be a really good way to communicate within our Club. It's actually fun, too. The younger members especially appreciate it, though 'young' in the 4 Club is anyone under 50!

The whole unfortunate mess between Buck and the AMCA Board seems to me to have been caused by a massive communication breakdown caused by failures on both sides to recognize generational differences. Buck's in his early 20's - he lives in a really different world than I do! He and his generation do business differently than old coots like me (and the AMCA President...) They tend to operate with a completely different set of expectations, especially when it comes to communication! Overnight is way too long to wait for a reply to an email, and a couple of days is like something is really wrong. Many in Buck's generation expect some kind of response RIGHT NOW! These guys don't wait for a committee to meet and write letters. And many of them really don't understand us old farts that think that's the way things should be done!

So if the AMCA is serious about wanting to appeal to enthusiasts in their 20's, like it or not, understand it or not, all of the Board needs to be on FB, President included. This forum will still likely be preferred by many and that's fine. The more channels for communication the better. But the Board is really kidding itself if it thinks FB and the other social media are going to go away. Adapt or go the way of the dinosaurs! (For those of who don't know me - I'm a Presbyterian minister - I know something about organizations that fail to respond to changes around them...)

You made so many good points it is hard to say what was the best point. Let me say I share the same views but am more of an Activist for Change. As a man of the Church you are aware that the delivery of your message is as important as the message itself, those that fall asleep or are distracted by the bird in the window does not remember what was said in the message you were trying to get across to a large assembly.

I had never looked at face book till at our last Chapter Christmas party, the members voted to have a Facebook page, so we created one from scratch. Shelby

[shelbyinparadise]

I did watch the Facebook rant that went on for bout a week. When the tide started shifting & questions were asked regarding what work did Buck actually do as Youth Coordinator the page was wiped clean. It is my understanding Buck was the one to wipe the Facebook page. It is my understanding feeling were hurt over the radio station inquiry & that anger was directed towards one person the current President of the AMCA. So why quit as Youth Coordinator? what dose one ever accomplish by quitting? If I see something that needs changed I work at changing it, I don't quit
Craig

Buck explained that when the discussion went way past the discussion of his resignation, and started a long chain of similar or related stories or examples of perceived or real misdeeds, he felt it was not in the best interest of the Club for it to go viral on FB. Buck was the only one that could make that decision. Keith redirected everyone to use the forum as the place to talk about The Club, good or bad, without him having knowledge of the experiences that caused the majority of people to leave this forum for ****** forum where there was no censorship from the National Board when discussing problems people had. We will see how this works. Those that chose to not care about issues of the Chapter and National politics, should at least allow the threads to continue for those that do. My thoughts. Shelby

[BoschZEV]

only Chapter Officers see the problems and has to deal with them, while others enjoy blissful ignorance that a problem exists

Shelby,

I respectfully suggest that people other than you can usefully contribute to improving the club, although some of the suggestions may be inconsistent with your own ideas. Running a club isn't rocket science, and it isn't an amazingly complex organization, so Chapter Officers like yourself are not uniquely qualified to understand it while the rest of us are in blissful ignorance.

Louis XIV said "après moi, le deluge" (after me, the deluge), believing only he was truly capable of governing France and so it all would fall apart after him. Many people are guilty of this sort of thinking, i.e. that they have some unique ability or insight that no one else has and it all will fall apart when they're gone. An organization as large and diverse as the AMCA is unlikely to fall apart when any of us are gone. That said, it only can improve things if everyone -- Chapter Officers and others -- who have useful suggestions contribute them.

Having obtained 4 US Patents in my career as a Senior Research Engineer, I have worked very close with some of the greatest legal minds in the country protecting my rights to products I invented. This leads me to believe that a simple legal document ...

Personally, I have seven U.S. patents and have served as an expert witness in at least a half-dozen patent infringement cases so I believe I have a fair understanding of the background of people who go into patent law. Good as patent attorneys are at the detail work required of them, to characterize anyone in that discipline as the "greatest legal minds in the country" is pure hyperbole that detracts from the credibility of other things you write. Further, as much as might have rubbed off on me about patent law, that knowledge tells me nothing whatever about potential legal liability issues of a donated motorcycle. Despite what you wrote, you certainly must know that a very different type of law is involved than that practiced by patent attorneys.

[rwm]

I have 0 patents and could careless about lawyers. Do you guys take the time to read your posts before you submit them?

[shelbyinparadise]

Shelby,

I respectfully suggest that people other than you can usefully contribute to improving the club, although some of the suggestions may be inconsistent with your own ideas. Running a club isn't rocket science, and it isn't an amazingly complex organization, so Chapter Officers like yourself are not uniquely qualified to understand it while the rest of us are in blissful ignorance.

Louis XIV said "après moi, le deluge" (after me, the deluge), believing only he was truly capable of governing France and so it all would fall apart after him. Many people are guilty of this sort of thinking, i.e. that they have some unique ability or insight that no one else has and it all will fall apart when they're gone. An organization as large and diverse as the AMCA is unlikely to fall apart when any of us are gone. That said, it only can improve things if everyone -- Chapter Officers and others -- who have useful suggestions contribute them.

Personally, I have seven U.S. patents and have served as an expert witness in at least a half-dozen patent infringement cases so I believe I have a fair understanding of the background of people who go into patent law. Good as patent attorneys are at the detail work required of them, to characterize anyone in that discipline as the "greatest legal minds in the country" is pure hyperbole that detracts from the credibility of other things you write. Further, as much as might have rubbed off on me about patent law, that knowledge tells me nothing whatever about potential legal liability issues of a donated motorcycle. Despite what you wrote, you certainly must know that a very different type of law is involved than that practiced by patent attorneys.

I can not help take notice that you hide behind your keyboard with no name or identifying information, much like a shark in shallow water looking for a hand, arm or leg to bite off. Are you part of the Proper English Police? Have you said anything to further the topics I speak of in plain talk, not quoting some French to impress anyone. I am trying in my own way to make a difference, And I never meant to imply I was important to solve problems but WE were needed to be aware of problems that needs addressing. I do not remember saying that I only worked with Patent Lawyers, UNOCAL had all types we worked with on different issues.

Only Chapter Presidents receive the National Presidents newsletter and in some cases that is as far as the information goes within the chapter. The Majority of the National Members do not belong to a Chapter so they are "Blissfully" uninformed. We never heard about the tax issue or loosing the Not For Profit status, because our ex president did not think it was important to members, the leaders would work it out. Only when I became part of a very active new Chapter Board of Directors, and had to deal with all these issues as part of my legal duties as part of a Not For Profit Chapter that I became aware of these problems. Buck Carson is the "Future of the Sport" coordinator for the Cherokee Chapter and He reports to our Board among all his other pursuits.

All of the emails I receive through regular email or phone calls is from other members encouraging me to stay the course and work to better the club and that is what I intend to do. Only yesterday did I decide to attend the Presidents meeting in Wauseon, where others will be assembled to discuss some of these issues.

Yes Rob, I read my responses carefully but they are written to the topic at hand, not everyone will see the points discussed or even see why bother.

No Disrespect meant but Respect is earned as we go through our lives, on our own path. Shelby

[BoschZEV]

I can not help take notice that you hide behind your keyboard with no name or identifying information,

Seriously? It hardly counts as hiding when all anyone has to do is click on BoschZEV to view my name and profile. However, I strongly prefer not to have my name appear in the posts themselves since it makes it all too easy for non-AMCA members to find me via Google. So, please respect that preference.

[shelbyinparadise]

You think I did not check first before posting? I can see names of members above and below you on Members list but your profile shows no name when I look, only your posts and statistics on posts.

[BoschZEV]

You think I did not check first before posting? I can see names of members above and below you on Members list but your profile shows no name when I look, only your posts and statistics on posts.

I have no idea what you checked before you posted, but you didn't check my profile. I looked again just now and it shows the last 3 people who looked at it, none of whom were you.