Youth Program Coordinator . . . Resignation ? ? ?

[steveale]

Just thought I would chip in my perspective. At one time "forums" were the facebook of their time. I still see members that only communicate via regular mail or telephone...others that text, others that use the forum and a growing number that use other online communication methods like facebook or even (gasp) instagram.

The reality is that there will be and continue to be MANY channels of communication and information sharing...some will use them, others wont'. That's ok, but it doesn't mean one is any better or more official than the other.

As a novice in the hobby/industry of antique motorcycles I cannot express how much appreciated the knowledge shared in forums has been. I talk to "old timers" than talk about days when you could only find parts or gain knowledge by visiting others or a meet to get information...there was no "on-line". Now information (and mis-information) is much more accessible and rapid. We can only hope that people will be more responsible than not with this new age capability.

To me the forums are great knowledge repositories for information and expertise on technical topics. I find Facebook more like a social gathering, much like sitting around a table while having a beverage and just having a "conversation".

both have their value...

[T. Cotten]

I wish I could view, much less participate, Folks,...

But the various platform formats coming at me are more learning curves than I have time for.

Very sorry maybe,

....Cotten
PS: Club politics is off-limits for me anyway.

[BigLakeBob]

Just thought I would chip in my perspective. At one time "forums" were the facebook of their time. I still see members that only communicate via regular mail or telephone...others that text, others that use the forum and a growing number that use other online communication methods like facebook or even (gasp) instagram.

The reality is that there will be and continue to be MANY channels of communication and information sharing...some will use them, others wont'. That's ok, but it doesn't mean one is any better or more official than the other.

As a novice in the hobby/industry of antique motorcycles I cannot express how much appreciated the knowledge shared in forums has been. I talk to "old timers" than talk about days when you could only find parts or gain knowledge by visiting others or a meet to get information...there was no "on-line". Now information (and mis-information) is much more accessible and rapid. We can only hope that people will be more responsible than not with this new age capability.

To me the forums are great knowledge repositories for information and expertise on technical topics. I find Facebook more like a social gathering, much like sitting around a table while having a beverage and just having a "conversation".

both have their value...

Well said.

[exeric]

I much prefer a forum like ours. I have friends that are addicted to FB and they always badger me to participate. I resist that because not everything I say is worth carving in stone (as hard as that is to believe) I've read some shocking things on FB, and had friends that were humiliated by something said to them, or embarrassed by something they said. This forum is a searchable resource and new members can go into past posts and find information, and knowledge and get educated before they engage the membership. Most important is the administrator, who can stop something that is going beyond the bounds of good manners, and taste. Maybe in the future, people will learn to use public forums with restraint, and understanding of other people's feelings; in the meantime, I prefer a forum with an active administrator that can keep everything civil.

[Keith Kizer]

Dear AMCA Members,

In response to the ongoing discussion on the AMCA Facebook page there are several facts that need addressed and facts stated.

Accusation: Richard Spagnolli, President of the AMCA ordered that a radio show be produced to compete with Buck Carson.

Fact: After listening to several episodes of Buck's radio show, a discussion was held between two board members and Keith Kizer, AMCA Executive Director, to look into a show that featured a weekly or monthly broadcast that featured AMCA Chapters, AMCA Members, etc.
During a pre-show mic check on Buck's show on which Keith was a guest, he had a conversation with the producer inquiring about how to start a show on Blog Talk Radio. The producer said he would call Keith back the next day which he did and said it's a good idea but should be done through his network, Road Hawgs Radio, to get the best audience but stated Buck Carson was his client and his first obligation was to him and he would have to talk this through with Buck to get him to agree to it before they could speak any further. He thought this would be a good tie-in with Buck's show and suggested if we did this, we should have Buck as the first guest to tie the two shows together. Keith agreed for him to talk to Buck.
The producer called Buck the next day and made the pitch. Buck wanted to think it over and called back to say he preferred that there not be another vintage motorcycle show on the same network. The producer called Keith to pass along Buck's wishes and that ended any further discussion. There was no further action taken and there is no intention to pursue a radio show on the Road Hawgs network.
Days later Buck wrote an email to the AMCA Board stating his grievance against what he thought was an underhanded approach by looking into an AMCA show and felt he was owed an apology. A board teleconference was held where it was agreed a letter would be sent to Buck from Keith explaining the history of the calls and that it was purely a fact finding effort and nothing else and certainly not an effort to disrupt Buck's show or his efforts. The time it took for this letter to be agreed upon, written and mailed was not to Buck's satisfaction which led to Buck writing another email which placed the blame on the Club's President. Last week Buck wrote another email to the board tendering his resignation as the AMCA's Youth Coordinator.

Response: There truly was never any intent to personally attack Buck or do anything that took away from Buck's show. We can all agree that Buck's show has been 100% AMCA friendly and supportive up to this point. If the actions of anyone on the AMCA Board or the Executive Director is perceived by others to have created this mistrust and discontent, we are truly sorry. With that said, these actions also resulted in Buck making public comments on his radio broadcast directed at the AMCA President and AMCA Board which have caused more personal attacks on these pages. For something that started out as a simple inquiry has escalated into accusations that are simply not true.


Accusation: Keith was ordered by Richard to sensor any post about Buck's resignation on the AMCA's Facebook page and make a list of anyone who opposed Richard and/or the Board to take action against them by kicking them out of the group.

Facts: No one ordered Keith to do anything. The only post that have been delete by the AMCA Facebook administrators, not the AMCA Board, are the ones who violated the page rules using foul language. Not one single person has been kicked off the page for their comments.

Accusation: “Spag is making his lists of names and is planning his attack!”

Facts: Richard is not a Facebook member and no one is keeping a list or a scorecard.


Accusation: The AMCA forced Buck out because they do not want the younger members.

Facts: The AMCA Board did not willfully or intentionally force Buck to resign. There have been numerous efforts to reach younger members for several years and the reason behind having a Youth Coordinator and a Youth Development Committee, the latter being created by Richard Spagnolli where Buck is a member of this Committee. The board certainly realizes the importance of the youth as the future of this club. One only has to review the numerous articles in the AMCA magazine regarding the effort to attract younger members and the extensive and spirited discussion on the AMCA Forum.

Response: No one on the Board has questioned Buck's loyalty to the sport of antique, vintage or classic motorcycles. The sport needs dozens if not hundreds just like him as the future of the sport. His dedication to old motorcycles is evident in his media outreach, event participation and undying devotion to the sport. At the same time, there have never been public ridicule or personal attacks on Buck. The personal attacks by a number of people towards AMCA officers is beyond comprehension. Yes, feelings have been hurt by people on both sides of this subject but the most damage is the Members of the AMCA and non-members who are members of this page only because of their shared love of old motorcycles. The same people who keep calling for the end of the political games are the only ones playing them. Not one single board member has played the political card and that is the main reason they have been reluctant to respond.

Sincerely,

AMCA Board by Keith Kizer, Executive Director

[fillibuster]

Darn!
Well, Keith, I could feel the "Uh-oh's" coming about the time you talked about a great idea that comes off as copy-cat. Then the soap opera of human frailties took over and turned it into a marketable melodrama. ... and I really don't think you Keith, or Buck wanted it like this.
I can feel myself in your shoes, been in that moment when things turned south. So good luck dealing with it. You have my support.

[rickgeo]

Unbelieveable, social media? ya gotta love it!

Rick Stambaugh # (thats no hashtag either) 2472

[RichO]

Keyboard commandos. Go figure!

[shelbyinparadise]

Since Facebook was wiped clean we will see if Keith's vanished statement that the forum was a more appropriate venue. The camel under the tent approach of exploring expanding of others ideas or events has been going on for many years before Keith has personal knowledge of anything but what he is told to go by. My personal experience with some actions from National leadership are not as "Pure as the driven Snow" when it comes to behind the scene decisions.

I believe Jim Ware was correct originally discussing maters occurring within Club was fair game in a respectful way. Buck Carson had every right to pull his posts, just as he had the right to post it in the first place. Buck has my respect for what he has tried to do in what appears to be a less than helpful environment.

Did they go to far wiping all discussions, only time will tell. Just my thoughts. Shelby

[Keith Kizer]

Shelby, I don't mean to imply that you meant this but let it be known that nothing was wiped other than what Buck wiped. There are no directives from the board to do so. Jim Wear and the Facebook administration team control the Facebook page, not the board, or even me for that matter. I may be an administrator but do not overstep my authority. If wiping out the entire debate/discussion has a fall out, that was Buck's decision alone.

[shelbyinparadise]

Shelby, I don't mean to imply that you meant this but let it be known that nothing was wiped other than what Buck wiped. There are no directives from the board to do so. Jim Wear and the Facebook administration team control the Facebook page, not the board, or even me for that matter. I may be an administrator but do not overstep my authority. If wiping out the entire debate/discussion has a fall out, that was Buck's decision alone.

No problem Keith, I hope we can start with a clean slate on this forum to be able to discuss the good and the bad as it relates to our Club. What ever heading this is allowed under on main menu should be like the TV Channels, people have the freedom to read or not read this topic. No posts on Parking lot Chatter or Chapter Events to interfere with threads of general interest topics should be allowed.

The moderator is free to move this thread to the best heading where it is allowed on main menu. Most do not want to see this abused with gun, abortion, religion, national or world politics, but an exchange of ideas on what is good and bad with club operation, issues, letters to Club, and so on should be allowed. Your Thoughts? Shelby

[Tom Lovejoy]

Keith, thanks for taking the time to share that info. I am on Face Book - Cannonball did that to me. I don't say much on there, just check out whats going on. But I appreciate hearing the boards view and thank you for your service to the club.

[Keith Kizer]

No problem Keith, I hope we can start with a clean slate on this forum to be able to discuss the good and the bad as it relates to our Club. What ever heading this is allowed under on main menu should be like the TV Channels, people have the freedom to read or not read this topic. No posts on Parking lot Chatter or Chapter Events to interfere with threads of general interest topics should be allowed.

The moderator is free to move this thread to the best heading where it is allowed on main menu. Most do not want to see this abused with gun, abortion, religion, national or world politics, but an exchange of ideas on what is good and bad with club operation, issues, letters to Club, and so on should be allowed. Your Thoughts? Shelby

Shelby, I completely agree with the members having the right to voice their concerns and keep the staff and board accountable to its members. I am not a moderator on this forum and support them moving it to a spot with a new heading to keep the discussion going. With that said, I would hope that some conversations be kept between two parties as opposed to airing some issues publicly. Too many times what I see on the forums are attacks on a person or subject that could have been resolved in an email without dragging that person or group through the mud undeserving.

I'm not stating any specific case, but many topics in general. I would hope that if anyone questions something that I may or may not have done, they would first start with a personal email to me. If I do not or cannot give the answer they are looking for and it continues to be a concern to them, by all means fire away on the forum. I would at least like the opportunity to solve the concern first.

I realize that Facebook is the new forum for some but I prefer the forum because like you elude to, you can specifically target a subject and only those who wish to concern themselves with that subject will bother to read it. The AMCA Facebook page has only one purpose. To share photos, ideas, parts, events that are for the betterment of antique, vintage and classic motorcycles. It is the attempt to invite people to be a part of the AMCA family (okay, two purposes) and join us at local, regional and national events and become a part of the old bike community.

[WebKahuna]

Shelby, Keith,
This "Parking Lot Chatter" forum is in my opinion as good a place as can be for general discussions such as you've both alluded too. What does help is to keep the discussion on the topic in the title of the thread. That way ,as Shelby suggested people can either read or pass as they see fit. I know this can be hard sometimes, as conversation can lead from one topic to another pretty easily. It's still a good idea as you reply on a thread to try and remember to keep with the discussion at hand. If you really want to say something on another subject even if it is related, You should start a new thread with an appropriate title. That way everyone knows what you want to talk about and can stay on that subject. In this thread for example if you don't want to discuss the resignation of the Youth Program Coordinator, and just that, you should start a new thread based on the subject you want to discuss. As Keith suggested it's a good idea to try and resolve any issues you have by first contacting someone who's responsible for the item you take issue with before bring it to the forum for discussion. I don't know if this helps. You can always PM me or click the report to moderator button and send an email to ask a question on forum usage
Gary

[duffeycycles]

I have heard the pickers have voiced disaproval of copy cat shows like "What's in the barn",taking away from their unique show's appeal.[they are still freinds with Dale & Matt]That is the way of TV-don't invent,copy...If the Prez[or whoever] had thought about it ,they would not try to imitate but be inventive.I understand Buck's disapproval.Buck's show does nothing for me,I can't get past the promo/advertizing to listen to anything else and I don't watch those other shows either.