Younger Membership of AMCA

[AFJ]

Notes left to me by an early AMC member, F.Charles Emmans give the motorcycles at the Grand Island, New York meet in 1959 as including 1911 and 1912 Pierce Arrows, a 1917 Pope, 1914 BSA, 1915 H-D, 1912 Henderson, 1909 Indian, 1920 H-D, 1922 Henderson, 1924 Henderson, 1922 Scott and his own 1905 Riley.

At the Charlevoix meet in 1960 Emmans had his 1903 Kerry there and his son, Peter showed the 1905 Riley and other motorcycles there were a 1903 Indian, 1910 Pierce, 1924 and 1928 Scotts, 1922 Ner-a-Car, 1909 Yale, 1914 H-D, 1920 H-D, 1914 BSA, 1919 ABC, 1924 H-D, 1914 Henderson, 1909 Pierce 4 and 1928 Indian Prince.

In those days "Antique" meant 1930 or older motorcycles and this requirement was copied from the British Vintage club (VMCC).

In the 1970 AMC picture book there were 23 different US made motorcycles, 8 British motorcycles, 2 French, 2 Belgian, 1 Swiss and 1 Danish motorcycle shown. By that time motorcycles made in 1930 or earlier were "Antiques" but motorcycles made from 1931 through 1942 were "Post-Antiques" and also welcomed at meets.

AFJ

[Spag]

Displays of pictures of non-American brands of motorcycles in AMCA National and Chapter publications and their mention in personal correspondence doesn't necessarily translate into universal or even a majority AMCA Membership acceptance of a specific brand of motorcycle. The AMCA Membership Survey in 2010 revealed some interesting statistics which relate to some of the observations and comments on this thread.

Ten percent of the AMCA Membership (a statistically significant number of respondents) responded as follows to the brands of antique motorcycles owned: 79% American; 31% British; 27% European and 30% Japanese. 47% of Members who own an American antique motorcycle also own at least one British, European or Japanese motorcycle.

The same percentage responded as follows when asked if the AMCA as an organization should do more to encourage involvement of owners of other non-American brands of motorcycles. British: 30% neutral ; 55% positive; 15% negative. Japanese: 27% neutral; 47% positive; 25% negative. European: 30% neutral; 55% positive; 15% negative.

As we all know, statistics can be used in many ways to support one's position. But I think the statistics above reflect that in a motorcycle organization like the the AMCA that have Members who own multiple brands of old motorcycles, not all embrace all brands in a positive way. The Board is in the process of developing a Strategic Plan which makes it clear that owners of ALL brands of antique motorcycles as defined by the Club are welcome in the AMCA. Personally, I think there is a more positive and tolerant attitude in the general Membership to embrace inclusion of all brands rather than one of exclusion.
Richard

[BoschZEV]

As we all know, statistics can be used in many ways to support one's position.

I would say that trying to argue a position with statistics is much less of a concern here than trying to draw a conclusion that is most likely to be valid given the limited data available.

when asked if the AMCA as an organization should do more to encourage involvement of owners of other non-American brands of motorcycles.... Japanese: 25% negative.

Given that most people are reluctant to admit to a prejudice, that 25% figure almost certainly can be taken as a lower limit. But, even taken at face value, it means that someone with an old Japanese motorcycle who was attending an AMCA meeting or meet would face 1 out of 4 people who weren't just uncaring, but who actively thought that bike should not be there. It's not much better for the other interlopers, where 1 out of 6 do not think they should be there.

One thing you can say about many AMCA members is they have no problem sharing their feelings. So there's a fair chance at a given AMCA meet or meeting that one or more members would express their dislike of Japanese motorcycles to the owner of one of them. That will be a big obstacle to overcome if there is to be much hope the AMCA will be able to recruit new, younger members in the years to come. Not many people will be eager to join a club where one out of four of the current members don't want them.

[AFJ]

Notes left to me by an early AMC member, F.Charles Emmans give the motorcycles at the Grand Island, New York meet in 1959 as including 1911 and 1912 Pierce Arrows, a 1917 Pope, 1914 BSA, 1915 H-D, 1912 Henderson, 1909 Indian, 1920 H-D, 1922 Henderson, 1924 Henderson, 1922 Scott and his own 1905 Riley.

At the Charlevoix meet in 1960 Emmans had his 1903 Kerry there and his son, Peter showed the 1905 Riley and other motorcycles there were a 1903 Indian, 1910 Pierce, 1924 and 1928 Scotts, 1922 Ner-a-Car, 1909 Yale, 1914 H-D, 1920 H-D, 1914 BSA, 1919 ABC, 1924 H-D, 1914 Henderson, 1909 Pierce 4 and 1928 Indian Prince.

In those days "Antique" meant 1930 or older motorcycles and this requirement was copied from the British Vintage club (VMCC).

In the 1970 AMC picture book there were 23 different US made motorcycles, 8 British motorcycles, 2 French, 2 Belgian, 1 Swiss and 1 Danish motorcycle shown. By that time motorcycles made in 1930 or earlier were "Antiques" but motorcycles made from 1931 through 1942 were "Post-Antiques" and also welcomed at meets.

AFJ

What I was leading up to with the above information was to record that after joining the AMC at the 1977 Medina meet, at the next 3 National Schenectady meets I attended, the "non-American" motorcycles which I showed and rode were judged and awarded in, successive years, Most Unique, Most Original, and Most Unique trophies. Certainly there was no consideration by the Judges and therefore the AMC, about the country in which the motorcycles had been manufactured.

However, I do remember comments by various meet attendees in the vein of "Why should a Limey bike get a trophy?" and "The unpatriotic so-and-so, showing a foreign bike!" An Empire Chapter official replied to the latter comment with. "Well, he's Canadian and he is being patriotic showing a British bike since they are part of the British Empire." And Doc Patt's comment on the first comment was simply, "The bike deserved it."

In my mind, on reflection of motorcycling in that era, Harley-Davidson was trying to stay in business by wrapping itself and its products in the American flag, playing the "Patriot Card" so prevalent as a marketing tool after the 1976 Bicentennial. H-D had been playing that game since the 1930s when a few Nortons challenged in Class C racing and in proposing tariff restrictions in the immediate post-war period when British motorcycles were imported in quantity to the USA. They were to do the same in the 1980s. And in H-D's defence Canada, and the British Commonwealth, had imposed tariff restrictions on American motorcycles in 1933. But H-D as "America's Motorcycle" has convinced a lot of customers over the years. At a Canadian rally last month an American visitor commented on the same 1938 British motorcycle which I had at that first Schenectady meet in 1978. "Is this bike a Canadian copy of a Harley-Davidson?" (Both are v-twins.) He wondered why I laughed.

The marketing of goods of all sorts by appeals to patriotism is exacerbated by the appeals regarding not buying from former enemy countries, ie, "Japanese motorcycles - from the people who brought you Pearl Harbor."

Most of us have gotten over all this ancient history, but it is up to the individual as to what he or she wishes to believe in, or claim to believe. The AMCA policy is one thing. But it does not, I think, have the jurisdiction or authority to determine what individuals want to say. Everybody has an opinion, it is said. But some are best ignored.

AFJ

[exeric]

AFJ, I think you're politicizing an issue that is no longer an issue. The worst animosity I've seen in the AMCA has been between the H-D, and Indian camps, and within those camps. Regarding Japanese motorcycles; I used to openly express my dislike for bikes from Japan, but I have made a 180 degree change, and I think you will see many older members do the same thing. If you go back to the AMCA meets of the 70s, there was a palpable contempt for modified, custom, and 50s vintage American iron; not to ignore that the AMCA was percieved as an Indian club that tolerated other brands. Time, and retrospective observation makes many motorcycles look very good. In other words, I think our club is very inclusive, and will only get broader in scope. However, I still believe this club needs to be mindful of it's rank, and file member preference for vintage American motorcycles.

[rwm]

AFJ, The worst animosity I've seen in the AMCA has been between the H-D, and Indian camps, and within those camps.

i always thought this was just good old fashion ribbing. was it really a battle?

[exeric]

i always thought this was just good old fashion ribbing. was it really a battle?

You sound like a Harley guy

[skidshoe]

Spag(Richard), thank you for your thorough input and service to AMCA. To be clear about my original post, I am nearly 100% a Harley guy, born and raised. For that reason, I joined the AMCA. It's the best source for my interests. I might encourage someone with strong interests in foreign machines to seek a club/organization with specific focus on those machines, and maybe I should not have that approach whatsoever. This is not a progressive approach for expanded membership for AMCA. I hope all members would encourage this specific group to join the AMCA, as I would. If most members are gearheads like myself, I am intrigued with all machines and always look forward to a good conversation and "tech inspection" of any vintage machine, foreign or American made. The easiest step for all of us members is to simply encourage all folks, old and young and even those who don't yet own a vintage machine, to join the club.

[Knotthed]

What would happen if The Antique Motorcycle was available on the newsstand?

Or maybe just a special edition once a year was on the newsstand, would that help get the word out?

Certainly print media is having a hard time with the Internet but perhaps a two pronged approach may be best.

[Rubone]

What would happen if The Antique Motorcycle was available on the newsstand?

That was tried a short time back and was deemed a failure and a money loser for the club.

[duffeycycles]

I think Kiwi thought we were serious HD nuts giving him a hard time at Davenport until I showed up with My brothers Indian racer-another guy always with me has a '48 Chief,but never has it there only Harleys.All in fun!!!!!I like Indians just as much

[Knotthed]

That was tried a short time back and was deemed a failure and a money loser for the club.

Rubone, that's only a failure if you don't take something away from the situation. It's really a great learning experience.....

It would seem that either print is on its way out or the content of The Antique Motorcycle was not competitive against the other mags available.


This is a pretty good advertisement the Trailer for "Why We Ride" http://vimeo.com/75545684
But how do you get non motorcycle people to watch it?

I think the key is engaging the people with the experience, do that and I think motorcycling will support itself.

[BoschZEV]

It would seem that either print is on its way out or the content of The Antique Motorcycle was not competitive against the other mags available.

Buzz Kanter's motorcycle publications are an exception to the overall downward trend of the magazine industry. Further, as the following story explains, there are very few distributors left, so just getting someone to handle a magazine is problematic:

http://nypost.com/2014/05/30/beach-w...hortage-ahead/

I've frequented a magazine/cigar store in town for the past 15 years because it has more shelf space devoted to magazines than the Barnes & Noble which means it carries some titles the B&N doesn't. When I first started going there the shelves were crammed with titles, but ever so slowly gaps started opening up to the point where now ~25% of the self space is open. Even if someone (e.g. the AMCA) could get a distributor to handle a magazine, people aren't buying them (or books) in the quantities they used to.

[shelbyinparadise]

What would happen if The Antique Motorcycle was available on the newsstand?

Or maybe just a special edition once a year was on the newsstand, would that help get the word out?

Certainly print media is having a hard time with the Internet but perhaps a two pronged approach may be best.

When the Cherokee Chapter has a "meet and greet" event we bring some of our personal old issues for people to look at, we almost have to chain them to the table. If there are extra copies printed some should be made available to chapters requesting, To me if someone can take one home, study it, show it to several friends, the snowball starts its journey down the hill.

I do not mean to just have a stack and sign saying free take one, but when you talk to someone, take the time to gauge interest, then hand one to him/her as bait on hook. We are also looking at Chapter business cards to hand out with contact info on Chapter website.

The national can write off issues given to chapters as advertising expense, so very marginal expense for the overrun.

Just my thoughts, Shelby

[Rubone]

Shelby,
There have almost always been issues available for promotional purposes. You need to ask for them though, and shipping is on you. I have given some out along with membership applications at events in the past with mixed results. I've seen folks ask for one, walk away flipping through it, and drop it in the next trashcan they come to.