Beware of the new E15 gasoline

[T. Cotten]

A few observations, Folks,

It takes more than ethanol to eat powdercoating.

Green corrosion on brass parts is a modern concern, be it from ethanol or other additives combined. Attached was a test of a soft-tipped valve (swelling was obvious), so the spots were a surprise.

The most common residue I find in bowls is a chalky precipitate that does not re-dissolve easily. The bottle in the photo was from one carburetor.

As far as shelf life, I find my local P4gas to store great,.. in glass.
Add a modern float, however, and it slowly gains specific gravity, darkens, and goes rancid.

Floats ruin fuel.

....Cotten

[pisten-bully]

I wonder about using aviation gas? I understand there's no ethanol in it, and maybe even still has lead?

Seems to me, if an antique bike gets ridden often then it will likely have already been changed over to modern components such as supplied by Cotten.

But if it's ridden rarely and still retains things like original floats, then a trip out in the car to bring home some non-ethanol gas in a can would be part of the deal.

[DanM]

Too bad we lost BoschZEV- his experimental designs seem sound, and the results interesting. But I appreciate Sir Mechanic's experience. I think the creativity of the people and the development of new materials will rush into this vacuum to solve the various problems. New materials will be developed for the auto industry, flexible tubings, coatings, etc. and guys like Cotten, Sir, et all will be there to make a few parts for us and so on. The big fear of zinc loss in oil for classic cars created a vacuum which drove the development and marketing of zinc rich additives.

Personally I use Stabil, not with any designed experiments, but the results are I don't have to clean the jets of the lawn mower, etc. nearly as frequently if at all. I have also tried a chemical STAR TRON which is supposed to combat the ethanol. I would send BoschZEV the money for a bottle if he would add it to the experimental layouts.

AND the use of corn for the ethanol drove up corn prices so as a food source the world is affected. Unintended or intended consequences?

[D.A.Bagin]

Dan, I had non-detergent oil in 40 and 50wt. blended to spec with proper amounts of ZDDP from an oil company in Ohio. Be careful, as too much zinc is not necessarily a good thing. I did have to buy quite a bit of it, but it has been very successful in my Four. I do change it after around 750 miles but this is less costly than a re-build.

[silentgreyfello]

Too bad we lost BoschZEV-

Chris started this thread regarding E15. How to deal with the E15 and how we got to this point are all related, but Bosch only wanted to direct the thread in his direction. He didn't want to listen to any of the "how we got here" because it must not agree with his political beliefs. He took his ball and went home.

[BoschZEV]

He didn't want to listen to any of the "how we got here" because it must not agree with his political beliefs. He took his ball and went home.

Someone sent me a private message asking me to rejoin this E15 thread because he is aware of the technical information I have on this topic, but the first post I found when I reopened it was the above taunt. To be clear, looking back through this thread I didn't see where anyone expressed anything like a political belief or a suggested political approach to the issue. All I found were schoolboy insults and name calling such as:

The EPA can OK it because the polar-bear-hugging fruitbats

screw the owl-huggers. ...remind the druids

when it comes to druids and knob-gobblers.

Are you suggesting we can't bash the idiot tree-hugging Demos for pushing this crap at us as they try to save the world?

[President Bush] was a RINO

If there were to be a political solution to this it would require both parties to be involved. Since I doubt there are many politicians who, after being called fruitbats, druids, idiots, etc. would be interested in helping people who called them those names, this juvenile name calling alienates half the people required to address it if first they could be convinced to, so is counterproductive at best. Even if a separate thread is started on the political, vs. the technical, what is required are positive suggestions to get the case of a very small constituency heard in a positive light.

It turns out I'm in Washington DC 2-3 times a year. This time last year I met with the now-former Secretary of Energy, and in ten days I will make my next trip where I again will meet with politicians of both parties. I have roles in two large professional societies that have their legislative advisors assist me and, as a result, over the past decade I've used this to arrange opportunities to discuss motorcycles with a number of politicians and their staff. However, typically the first image I have to address is that motorcyclists are an anti-social fringe element who, as such, can be safely ignored.

Anyway, this is the reason I'm not interested in participating in a thread on E15 where off-topic and counterproductive insults and taunts, rather than technical information, is so common.

[frichie68]

I seriously doubt that motorcyclists are the only citizens using derogatory terms like "fruitbats", especially since the shoe seems to fit so well.
Rich

[T. Cotten]

Let's make believe for a moment Folks,

That magically, all 'gasahol' subsidies were repealed tomorrow; Would our machines then be safe?

Which of the 150-odd "known" additives eats powdercoating?

Our machines need a damage control plan, not futile distractions.

My approach has been to eliminate all possible targets for the fuel in the first place.

....Cotten

[surfdude]

let's turn the conversation back to the technical side then: regardless of corn or other additives in modern gas, should i/we be regularly or semi-regularly putting anything else in the tank with gas? does the mystery oil or octane boost or anything else really help the situation at all, and if so, how much and how often? if that gas is here to stay in at least its current format, what can we do to help minimize any negative consequences of using it? i have a feeling mr. cotten an others have addressed this in the past but i have a poor memory.

[T. Cotten]

It wasn't me, Surfdude!

Mixing fuel at the pump is a bother.

And I just don't believe in 'antidotes', either.

....Cotten

[fillibuster]

It wasn't me, Surfdude!

Mixing fuel at the pump is a bother.

And I just don't believe in 'antidotes', either.

....Cotten

Hi Cotten!
I've encountered that residue in the bowl, and it really wasn't that much of a chore to clean it out, and my chief's kind of a rat anyway, so the mess wasn't too bad.
The stuff made me think of sand, white sand, with very fine crystals. If the stuff gets inhaled in solution (or mixture) into my cylinders, what are the risks? Is it abrasive like sand? Or is it less dangerous than that? You know, what if it had started and ran well, instead of running poorly, when I was showing it off?