Please ID this motorcycle if you can

[BoschZEV]

I realize this photo is of fairly low quality, but it's the only one I have. It's an enlargement of a portion of a photograph scanned from the family album, so this is as good as it can be.

My father was a policeman in a fairly small Iowa town and the caption on this photo in the family album says it was taken in 1941. Assuming that caption is correct, that makes the bike 1941 or earlier. I realize there's not much to go on, but can any eagle-eyed reader who is familiar with Harleys and Indians of the time identify the make and model of the bike? I would sincerely appreciate it.
c1940motorcycle.jpg

[pete reeves]

Rectangular foot board would make this bike 39 and earlier.

Pete Reeves 860

[36 knuck man]

I agree with Pete, but the rest is hard to make out, thanks, Larry May

[Panuckle]

The squareness of the crash guard suggests pre-war big twin.

[Jim]

Also just to add... It has the bigger flat top fenders which would make it at least a 1934 and up. It also looks like it has the fender light. I don't think it is a VL due to what I can see of where the horn mounts because it looks like it has too much chrome there for it to be those '36 VL chrome horn mount. Maybe that shiny part near the horn is the Ride Control glistening in the sun. The ride control on VL was HIGHER up near the headlight, so I doubt it would be a VL. So, that leaves it to be a '36 EL or 1937-1939 "Something". BUT... does the shifter look right? OR it could be due to the lack of sharpness in the picture. It almost looks like an "Indian" shifter.

[Jerry Wieland]

It is a 37 to 39 UL - left side air intake and the fact that the shift gate is below the upper profile of the gas tank. VL's are mounted on the top of the tank.

Jerry

[bob43wlc]

It is a 37 to 39 UL - left side air intake and the fact that the shift gate is below the upper profile of the gas tank. VL's are mounted on the top of the tank.

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

Thank you very much for this info. I see what you mean for the shift gate, but I don't about the '' left side air intake ''?

Thanks again!

[Jim]

AH... now that you've mentioned it... I NOW see the shift gate and air intake. Yes, I knew that the shift gates are mounted on top of a VL tank. ;^)

The air intake is just behind the TOP LEFT side of the crash bar, NEXT to your Dad's left knee.

EL models had the air intake on the right side.

[BoschZEV]

Guys, this is fantastic information! I can't thank all of you enough. To be sure I haven't misread anything, it sounds like you've narrowed it down to being a Harley-Davidson UL of year 1937, '38 or '39. If this is the case, and absent anyone narrowing it down even further (or pointing out irrefutable evidence that it's really a BMW...), I very likely will be in the market to buy a '37-'39 UL.

My mother never mentioned that my father, who died when I was young, had owned a motorcycle himself (although, many mothers would try to keep that a secret from their boys...), and there are no other photos of him on one in the family album. The portions of the photo I cropped out in order to make the bike itself as large as possible indicate the scene was a parade, and his clothes seem to indicate he was on duty, so all of this indicates it likely was an official police motorcycle. So, as far as you can tell from the photo, is the equipment (lights, position of controls, etc.) consistent with that? Would H-D have supplied later bikes (i.e. '40 and '41) to police departments with footboards even if they didn't equip them that way for the civilian market? That is, even with footboards, what are the odds it is not a '40 or '41 and, possibly, not a UL?

[cdndewey]

Guys, this is fantastic information! I can't thank all of you enough. To be sure I haven't misread anything, it sounds like you've narrowed it down to being a Harley-Davidson UL of year 1937, '38 or '39. If this is the case, and absent anyone narrowing it down even further (or pointing out irrefutable evidence that it's really a BMW...), I very likely will be in the market to buy a '37-'39 UL.

My mother never mentioned that my father, who died when I was young, had owned a motorcycle himself (although, many mothers would try to keep that a secret from their boys...), and there are no other photos of him on one in the family album. The portions of the photo I cropped out in order to make the bike itself as large as possible indicate the scene was a parade, and his clothes seem to indicate he was on duty, so all of this indicates it likely was an official police motorcycle. So, as far as you can tell from the photo, is the equipment (lights, position of controls, etc.) consistent with that? Would H-D have supplied later bikes (i.e. '40 and '41) to police departments with footboards even if they didn't equip them that way for the civilian market? That is, even with footboards, what are the odds it is not a '40 or '41 and, possibly, not a UL?

The rectangular footboards that were refered to in an earlier post first appeared on HD's in 1914 and were last used in 1939, when they were changed to what is refered to as D boards. I believe those were used until 1965, when another style was introduced. They were used on all Big Twins and 45's and pegs weren't introduced until 1952 on the K models. Now keep in mind I am only refering to the larger displacement models (45" and larger), and not the smaller displacement models.

The air cleaner on the left side is indicative of a BT side valve engine....hence the UL. It is unfortunate you don't have a side picture, because the paint scheme could narrow down the year even further.

[BoschZEV]

I searched through the photos in 'Harley-Davidson Police Motorcycles' by Robert and Robin Genat (Motorbooks, 1995) and the nearly head-on shot captioned "A Harley-Davidson studio shot of a 1938 police model..." on page 40 looks remarkably like the photo of the bike my father is sitting on. Knowing where to look for the shift lever, I can now see it in the photo. Also, the layout of the horn, and the lights on the handlebars, are the same (although the colored and clear lights are reversed in the studio shot). Although a 1937 model is shown in the reproduction of a H-D ad on p. 27, it is from the side so it's harder to compare with my photo, but it is consistent.

One possible difference is the crash bars on my father's machine have a square profile but it appears the ones in the book might angle in slightly toward the bottom. However, this could be an illusion due to the angle of the photographs in the book.

[Jim]

The footboards are rectangular up to and including 1939. In 1940 they started using a footboard that looked like a half moon. "IF" someone did swap out the footboards... it makes you wonder why they would go backwards to the older style. If the photo was taken in '40/'41 then it is more apt to be the original footboards on the bike making it pre-1940. The carburetors on UL's were on the LEFT side. The EL (Knucklehead) carb was on the right side. Technically, the WL (45") bike also had the carb on the left side too, however, it would be hard to imagine a police force using a smaller 45". Not sure if there is anything in the photo that could identify it as a 45". As for the position of the Police lights? I'm not sure... but probably depended on the dept. that ordered the Police Special from Harley Davidson. OR if one or both were busted somehow they could be replaced by anyone... on either side? I have seen photos of the RED light on both sides, so I don't know if there was a "standard" for them.

[Jim]

I realize this photo is of fairly low quality, but it's the only one I have. It's an enlargement of a portion of a photograph scanned from the family album, so this is as good as it can be.

My father was a policeman in a fairly small Iowa town and the caption on this photo in the family album says it was taken in 1941. Assuming that caption is correct, that makes the bike 1941 or earlier.

Can you post a pic of the entire photo too?

ALSO:

Have you considered contacting the police dept. from that town in Iowa? They may have some old pics of the motorcycle EVEN if your Dad wasn't on it at the time...

[BoschZEV]

c1940motorcycle02.jpg

The rectangular footboards… were last used in 1939 …
The air cleaner on the left side is indicative of a BT side valve engine....hence the UL. It is unfortunate you don't have a side picture, because the paint scheme could narrow down the year even further.

The footboards are rectangular up to and including 1939. ..Technically, the WL (45") bike also had the carb on the left side too, however, it would be hard to imagine a police force using a smaller 45". Not sure if there is anything in the photo that could identify it as a 45".

I'm happy enough to have it narrowed down to the specific model and a time span of only three years. I'm extremely grateful for this. Unless there were substantial differences between the ULs of those three years, any one of them would provide the same riding experience as my father would have had 70+ years ago.

Can you post a pic of the entire photo too?
Have you considered contacting the police dept. from that town in Iowa? They may have some old pics of the motorcycle EVEN if your Dad wasn't on it at the time...

See attached for the photo. I only cropped out the empty roadway between the front tire and the camera in the attached.

For what it's worth, the town is Ft. Dodge. Unfortunately, contacting them very likely would not do any good. Even if I were fortunate enough to find someone there willing to go through old records, only if those records showed that, say, they bought a batch of 1938 ULs for the force, hadn't bought any machines for two years before that, or any the next year, could it narrow it down to a specific year. Also, even if they found a few photos of motorcycles from that period, absent having the department's purchasing records, there wouldn't be any way to know if the motorcycle in my photo is the same (or the same model) as the motorcycles in photos they might find.

[BoschZEV]

I have a lot of books, so am not looking for someone to take their time to do research for me, but a few comments could help a lot at this point. Most of the books I've looked through thus far are vague on model designations, and I've yet to find enough to figure out if HD actually had some sort of logical naming convention. But, to the point, I haven't yet figured out what constitutes a "U" in general, let alone a "UL." Harry Sucher comes closest, but even there it's uncertain. In an Appendix he shows that 74 c.i. U and UL machines from 1937 onwards were o.h.v., whereas 80 c.i. UH and UHL machines 1936-47 were side valves. You guys have said that the '37-'39 ULs were side valve machines, which is inconsistent with information in Sucher. Anyway, assuming "U" is some major category and "H, HL, and L" are sub-categories (which I hope you will tell me is a good assumption, if it is...), what constitutes a "U," and what then differentiates UH, UHL and UL (and other Us, if there are any) from each other?

Having this basic understanding of H-D "U-terminology" would help me a lot when looking through all those books for relevant information. Thanks in advance.