Left versus right-side shifting: Which handlebar gets the brake?

[T. Cotten]

Folks,

We all know both Indian and H-D offered both left and right-hand shifter combinations through the 'classic era'.

My question is:
Would the hand brake also be switched,.. for both marques?

Thanks in advance,

.....Cotten

[Sargehere]

Clutch foot rockers remained where they were, on the left foot. The purpose of LH front brake on Harley, at least, appears to have been to make pulling away from stopped on an up hill "possible." I.E.: Right foot on the ground holding the bike up, left foot to operate the foot clutch; Right hand to operate the throttle in concert with the left foot on the clutch, while releasing the front brake with the left hand.
I don't know how the Indian riders managed it, but that's why the front brake lever was on the Harleys' left handlebar. Putting the front brake opposite the throttle seems to make sense 2me.

[T. Cotten]

You did not answer my question at all, Sarge.

....Cotten

[cdndewey]

You did not answer my question at all, Sarge.

....Cotten

I think he did in a roundabout way Tom.

Refering to his last sentence......... "Putting the front brake opposite the throttle seems to make sense 2me."

By that I would say...right hand throttle, left hand brake...left hand throrrle, right hand brake. But remember, that's speculation based on experience with right hand throttles.

[T. Cotten]

C'mon, Dewey!

I did not ask for conjecture, especially Sarge's, who probably rides with his pedal dampener snug.

I asked for correct placement, meaning: as factory production.

If a right-shift H-D rolled in for AMCA judging, on which handlebar should the brake handle be?

And similarly for a left-shift Indian, I ask the same question.

H-D's Spare Parts lists the same handlever and bracket complete in the right-hand-shift section, for some reason, but not the necessary longer cable.
I only find different cables available with the lever, for different handlebar designs only, which is another enigma.

Can anyone offer a factory part number for the necessary brake cable and sheath for either of these H-D or Indian applications?

....Cotten

[cdndewey]

That's why I said speculation Tom.

I'll go through some of my literature and see if I can find anything specific.

I don't have any literature on Indian stuffm but had this been brought up on Friday I would have asked a buddy when I saw him yesterday who is quite knowledgeable on Indian stuff. I'll forward your queries to him and see what his response is.

[tfburke3]

Hey Tom,
I have both left and rt. shift Indians with both having the brake lever on the rt.Not sure if this correct,but my 34 came with left throttle rt.brake and was a pretty unmolested police bike.
34 parts list only lists one lever,and this style early lever would look odd upside down,unlike the later lever which would be less noticeable flipped.
34 Parts list also has different length throttle cables but shows only one brake wire,although this might be because a different wire wasn't needed ,but who knows.
Tom

[Chris Haynes]

The factory photo of the PDNY 1937 UMG had the front brake lever on the right side.

[T. Cotten]

That's a clue, Tom!

That would suggest that Indian considered the handbrake independent, and perhaps irrelevant to the shifter/throttle choice.

Or maybe they realized the brake was actually more suitable on the right for a right-throttle/left-shift machine anyway, something H-D couldn't grasp.

And that's pretty definitive, Chris!

There had to be a part number for that cable and sheath, right?

Do I remember correctly what I have read that the 'PDNY' machines were ordered equip't with whatever controls Indian had been supplying?

....Cotten

[exeric]

My 1940 Indian parts book lists right, and left hand brake lever assemblies. I can scan the page if you want part#s. Early H-D J model hand brake levers could be used on either side because they were symetrical, but the entire J thru V series was committed to left had shifting and none of my J thru V parts books list an opposing hand brake assembly.

[T. Cotten]

Great, Eric!

So this is a '36 to '53 thing.

We must assume the Indian assemblies included the different cable sheath? I don't need the numbers immediately, but I appreciate knowing they exist.

One would think a fellow could easily order a machine with the brake upon the "incorrect" handlebar. Damn them order blanks.

....Cotten

[Sargehere]

You did not answer my question at all, Sarge.

....Cotten

I didn't plan to, Tom. I just explained why front brake handles were on the left as built (to hold on an uphill taking off) for those without a clue.

To answer your question, here:



Indian on the left, Harley "UMG" or whatever it was called, on the right; Harley's late-1930s attempt to tempt the PDNY to buy Harleys that were Indian-equipped, (edit) RH shift and LH throttle. Both have RH front brakes, LH throttles, push-to-disengage clutches. RH front brakes to hold the bike when pulling away from stop on an up-hill.

[exeric]

From a 1940 Indian parts book.

[RichO]

Tom and Gerry. Would not the UMG be built to Indian spec's per the NYPD with right hand brake and left hand throttle? That was the purpose of H-D's bid for the contract. How do you know that UMG bike pictured doesn't have the required left hand throttle? The Indian pictured has it were it was supposed to be with a left hand throttle, on the right side.

[Sargehere]

Tom and Gerry. Would not the UMG be built to Indian spec's per the NYPD with right hand brake and left hand throttle? That was the purpose of H-D's bid for the contract. How do you know that UMG bike pictured doesn't have the required left hand throttle? The Indian pictured has it were it was supposed to be with a left hand throttle, on the right side.

Thanks, Rich. I edited my brain-fart. The Harley U-model does have the Indian-style LH throttle and RH shift. Also a push-to-disengage clutch pedal. Excuse is that I'm a Harley guy, lookin' at the bikes pictured from the front, and pretty disoriented most of the time, anyway.

The whole purpose of the UMG program was to sell Indian-controls-equipped Harleys to New York and other Indian-equipped PDs during the Great Depression without them having to retrain their officers to Harley's control system.

The point was that Harleys and Indians both "normally" put their front brake levers on the side opposite their throttles, and both offered the competition's control system on request. The photo is proof that included the PDNY "UMGs."

Dale Walksler just built one. Harley allegedly had two different transmission-to-shift lever linkages, both shown in their Spare Parts catalogs, but used the one designated for the OHV Knuckleheads (skirted around, instead of crossing under the fuel tank) on the Flathead UMGs they built of NYC.