Polaris starting enforcement of Indian Trademark

[starklite]

Well we knew it was bound to happen. It appears that Polaris is now sending cease & desist letters regarding the Indian Trademark.
The big questions remains, what does this mean to our antique community? We've been making parts long before Polaris ever came around? And if it wasn't for companies like ours and others through the years the Indian trademark would not be worth what it is today because the bikes would not be on the road like they are today without 40 years of parts available for them.

Here is the link to the article:
POLARIS ENFORCES TRADEMARK

[brian_groff]

Hi Gary. John White of Crazy Horse doesn't carry the best of reputations in amongst the 'new' Indian community. Let's just hope this is an assault on Crazy Horse and nothing goes into the courts where this could get blown out of proportion. I'm assuming you and folks like Mike Thomas and Jerry Greer haven't received such letter yet ... (?).

If J. White's smart, he'll communicate with them and reach some mutually agreeable solution. Then again, what are the odds of that really happening? Let's all hope ...

[Robert Luland]

Like the letter says, stop using the trade mark. Polaris paid for that and it's their property. No bodies telling you, you can continue to make vintage parts. Just that when you advertize them, don't use original Indian trademarks in doing so or start paying us a cut of the booty. I'll give ya a point in case: If ya hold a three day event called the Bad Ass Harley Get Together and it's all about Harley brand harmonicas, they got no case but if it's a Harley Davidson motorcycle meet. They got you by the nuts! Who were the promoters of the Bad Ass Harley Get Together to use a registered trade mark to profit off of? Bad Ass Motorcycle Get Together, no problem. I'm sure there not going to take it to the point of saying the word Indian as long as you don't use original trademarks. Polaris seems to be a pretty fair company in the past and I don't see them pulling a HD death run as long as you comply with their simple request.
Bob L

[Paquette]

Does anyone know exactly what trade marks Polaris has the rights to? Trademarks expire after a number of years and I remember a lot of crap going back and forth before Gilroy days. Just asking--

[Robert Luland]

Trademarks are not the same as patents. A patent if I remember right has to be renewed in the seventh year and then can renewed for another seven. Then it's over? A trademark stays with its owner but still has to be renewed. Bob L

[brian_groff]

Facts

Only because I'm not familiar with trademark laws myself ...

http://indianvertical.com/Documents/Trademarks.pdf

I've provided the actual trademarks from TESS for both Live and Dead variants, going back to the mid-90's when that outfit from Albuquerque was in business. (The IndianVertical document link is the more complete list).

[Tommo]

I was always told;
"You want some grief buy an Indian Chief
You want some more buy an Indian Four"

[brian_groff]

I was always told;
"You want some grief buy an Indian Chief
You want some more buy an Indian Four"

Why stop there? Just go buy a vertical and prepare to go surgical. You'll need to uncork to fix that Dyna-Torque.

Bad rhyme I know ... but the verts are the worse.

Good thing I'm wearing boots today. It's gettin' deep here ...

[Jerry Hatfield]

Unofficial guardhouse lawyer perspective:

In all my books there's a trademark disclaimer up front, in those bureaucracy pages that everybody skips over. The point is made that brand and model names are protected by trademark law, and that such names are used in the book only for purposes of identification. A trademark consists of information, presented through verbiage and graphics, or just graphics. I guess "Indian" in the familiar coca-cola style script, has been trademarked.

[brian_groff]

JW's previous response to allegations in 2007.

Gateway Tower West
15 West South Temple, Suite 900
Salt Lake City, Utah 84101
Salt Lake City (801) 537-1700
Facsimile (801) 537-1799
Utah Valley (801) 373-5600
1v1.A.DSON .A.USTIN
Craig J. Madson
Via Facsimile 415-268-7522

Jennifer Lee Taylor
MORRISON FOERSTER
425 Market Street
San Francisco, California 94105-2482
February 1, 2007

Re: Allegation of trademark infringement Our File: 3530.7.1

Dear Ms. Taylor:

We are in receipt of your letter faxed January 31,2007 in which you indicated
that we had not acceded to your demands of January 29,2007. We thought our letter of
January 30,2007 was perfectly clear in that regard. However, in the interest of
completeness, we will confirm that John White and his company will not use the term
INDIAN AND an Indian Head Dress design on engines at the V-Twin Expo starting
Saturday. Hence, John White does not intend to use any mark that is likely to be
confused with any legitimate trademark rights of IMI.

That being said, we do not believe that IMI has exclusive rights to a Native
American motif regarding motor vehicles, such as motorcycles, or their parts, such as
engines. IMI does not have trademark rights that preclude the use of the image of a
Native American in traditional attire (e.g., in war paint, wearing beads, wearing an
identifying feather, or wearing a head dress). If that is your position, certainly IMI is
overreaching.

We look forward to opening a dialogue that may be constructive in resolving the
present dispute so that the pending declaratory judgment action need not go forward.
Continued threats, whether they are threats of litigation for infringement or threats of
going to the press, are not constructive.

If you have any questions concerning this matter, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Sincerely yours,

MADSON & AUSTIN

Craig J. Madson
CJM:kwg
cc: John White
S:\ALLCLIENTS\3530 John White\3530.7.1 \2nd Itr Response to Litigation Threat.doc

[Bill]

The solution to this is relatively easy. Stop using the EXACT Indian script and Indian head artwork in favor of a similar design because art can be copyrighted. Instead of using the "Indian" name when referring to parts, use "fits Indian" or use "fits REAL Indians, not imitation ones."

[Bills37]

I fear that Polaris cares little about original Indian owners and what is involved in keeping a 60 -70 year old motorcycle running.

[Paquette]

Considering the fact that Indian went out of business in 1953 and all others were imposters to the name . Who gives a crap? The Polaris "motorcycles" are more like a kit bike you can buy through V-Twin. They ain't nothing but a Big Dog with big fenders. The most beautiful Indians IMHO were pre 1940----

[c.o.]

Considering the fact that Indian went out of business in 1953 and all others were imposters to the name . Who gives a crap?

Exactly!!! The "Indian" name has been used and abused over and over. Why can't these big name business people come up with something original? Instead, they ride on the coat tails of a once great company. Indian died in 1953 and what is left should be treasured and preserved. Beyond that it's all B.S. !!!

[Coolbreeze]

There is a legal defense of "dilution" that essentially nullifies a trademark if it is used by the general public for a significant period of time without permission. Classic examples are Bayer losing the "aspirin" trademark and 3M losing their rights to "cellophane." Also, a trademark can be lost through abandonment. There were many, many years that no motorcycles were being manufactured as Indian brand products - except, perhaps by Sammy Pierce. If Polaris has any sense, they will not risk losing to either of these defenses. Instead, they should work out a deal with Starklite, Kiwi, etc. whereby those companies can continue under license to do business as they have in the past. This license should be interminate and cost no more than $1/year. That way, all the players recognize Polaris's exclusive right to the trademark, and the antique Indian people will not be bothered.