Will Harley JDs Be The New Knuckleheads?

[harleytoprock]

It doesn't matter which bike is really better. The demand is brought on by people who decide which bike is cool and how many folks that want one. The JD certainly has its mystique and interest. When I have my JD out on the road, it gets more interest from people than my knuckle receives. People always yell out from their car,"What year is it?". Beeping the Klaxon horn and the exposed valve train brings on a smile to all. When I ride it, I'm brought to another time period. I think the JD's are way cool.

[Buzz Kanter]

I have enjoyed reading the various responses. Please note I started this thread asking about the future prices of Harley J and JD motorcycles. I did not compare them to Harley V or VL motorcycles - which I also like. This is not about which is "better" - whatever that means.

[46EL]

I have enjoyed reading the various responses. Please note I started this thread asking about the future prices of Harley J and JD motorcycles. I did not compare them to Harley V or VL motorcycles - which I also like. This is not about which is "better" - whatever that means.

Buzz- My opinion is that over the last 25-35 years I have seen basically no change in price on JD's compared to Knuckles. And i'm pretty sure you have been doing this whole vintage thing for as long as I have been doing it. About thirty years ago I bought a running fairly correct and fairly original 46EL on the side of the road leaning against a tree for $3500. It had maybe a little too much chrome but had a nice motor and an original frame and probably an incorrect speedo. At that time I also knew of a few mid 20's JD's that also ran but were repaints with some incorrect parts and they were priced at $1,000 bucks. Now thirty years later I think you can add a zero to both of the above numbers and find a comparable bike for the same exact price. Right across from me at Oley this spring was a nice entry level JD that was a potential runner slash driver with a little work. I think the bottom line on that one was less than 10 grand eventually as I know it did not sell then and there. Today I believe you can find a running late model Knuckle for 35 grand if you look long enough. Sorry but that seems to be the going price today. And yes maybe there was a lot of hype over the whole Cannonball thing and every where you go your bike draws attention but are any of those people serious potential buyers on the day you want to or have to unload your investment? My answer and like I stated above it is "my opinion" is no. I believe there are more people today trying to sell JD's than there are serious buyers. Remember the average age of the AMC Club Member today. Do you think someone who is in their late 60's or early 70's is a potential buyer at todays prices for some thing that is not original or highly collectable like a JDH? How many 20 to 30 year old kids do you see walking around at Oley or Rhinebeck with a fistfull of money looking at JD's? Knuckleheads are still around and yes they are a bit pricey. But I still see some nice bikes and baskets with potential for average prices that need work. And the whole "needs work" thing is another subject as I do not believe the average USA Buyer on a Knuckle today is looking for something for nothing and does not want to get their hands dirty. Not to say there are not guys out there who are still not afraid to get down on their hands and knees at a swap meet and dig through boxes for parts and hardware. But I strongly believe that person is a dying breed and not too many guys have the time and money for a project especially with our economy today. If you are the kind of guy who thinks the term "Investment" does not apply because you ride your bike think again. None of us are getting any younger. If you do not plan on someday having to sell your bike is there anyone in your family who won't look at it as an Investment? Will they keep it and ride it? There is nobody in my family who has any interest in anything that is old as far as motorcycles go. I personally do not think that the average JD will ever be the new Knuckle. Not to say that some teens JD's or maybe JDH's or original paint bikes will bring good money. And again I repeat this is only my opinion. 46EL

[exeric]

46EL, you're assessment of Knucks and Js is probably spot-on. For me, J models are my favorite H-D because they are beautiful, and the fact that they are more affordable is just a bonus. My favorite years are 1915-1924 because they still had the flat tanks and had that tall and narrow look. From '25 on, the J, JD, and JDH were just better looking VLs. I've had a couple of Knucks and I love them, but they just don't thrill me enough to throw silly money at one. You've seen one Knucklehead, you've seen a million; they just don't have the character for me. Having said that, the Knucklehead is (and always will be) the king of Harley Davidsons because they have that certain something that everyone loves. Just like '57 Chevys, and Rolex watches. Personally, I have always preferred the less travled path, and I prefer riding that path on a J model Harley Davidson.

[indianut]

I sold this Knuckle 16 months ago for 18,000. I did good as did the buyer.

[46EL]

Nice looking Knuckle and considering the repops I spot right off the bat probably a nice entry level fairly priced machine. Even though I do not believe that JD's will be the "new Knuckle" I should have mentioned above that JD's and VL's are in my opinion probably the best buy for your money for a vintage Big Twin pre Knuckle HD today. They are what they are and you can enjoy them as easily as you can enjoy owning a big dollar bike and sometimes maybe even more. 46EL

[chicagohen]

I'm very pleased with the peformance of my '34 VL and its ability to pull the attached hack. It is far superior to the '20's Chiefs I've ridden. I've never been on a JD but I can't imagine it much different than the counterpart Indians. Not to rub it in but anything is a letdown next to my Hendersons. The stock KL will run 100mph. I doubt even the average prewar Knuck will do that. My '39 Bonney Chief is stressing at 90.

[Buzz Kanter]

Buzz- My opinion is that over the last 25-35 years I have seen basically no change in price on JD's compared to Knuckles. And i'm pretty sure you have been doing this whole vintage thing for as long as I have been doing it. About thirty years ago I bought a running fairly correct and fairly original 46EL on the side of the road leaning against a tree for $3500. It had maybe a little too much chrome but had a nice motor and an original frame and probably an incorrect speedo. At that time I also knew of a few mid 20's JD's that also ran but were repaints with some incorrect parts and they were priced at $1,000 bucks. Now thirty years later I think you can add a zero to both of the above numbers and find a comparable bike for the same exact price. Right across from me at Oley this spring was a nice entry level JD that was a potential runner slash driver with a little work. I think the bottom line on that one was less than 10 grand eventually as I know it did not sell then and there. Today I believe you can find a running late model Knuckle for 35 grand if you look long enough. Sorry but that seems to be the going price today. And yes maybe there was a lot of hype over the whole Cannonball thing and every where you go your bike draws attention but are any of those people serious potential buyers on the day you want to or have to unload your investment? My answer and like I stated above it is "my opinion" is no. I believe there are more people today trying to sell JD's than there are serious buyers. Remember the average age of the AMC Club Member today. Do you think someone who is in their late 60's or early 70's is a potential buyer at todays prices for some thing that is not original or highly collectable like a JDH? How many 20 to 30 year old kids do you see walking around at Oley or Rhinebeck with a fistfull of money looking at JD's? Knuckleheads are still around and yes they are a bit pricey. But I still see some nice bikes and baskets with potential for average prices that need work. And the whole "needs work" thing is another subject as I do not believe the average USA Buyer on a Knuckle today is looking for something for nothing and does not want to get their hands dirty. Not to say there are not guys out there who are still not afraid to get down on their hands and knees at a swap meet and dig through boxes for parts and hardware. But I strongly believe that person is a dying breed and not too many guys have the time and money for a project especially with our economy today. If you are the kind of guy who thinks the term "Investment" does not apply because you ride your bike think again. None of us are getting any younger. If you do not plan on someday having to sell your bike is there anyone in your family who won't look at it as an Investment? Will they keep it and ride it? There is nobody in my family who has any interest in anything that is old as far as motorcycles go. I personally do not think that the average JD will ever be the new Knuckle. Not to say that some teens JD's or maybe JDH's or original paint bikes will bring good money. And again I repeat this is only my opinion. 46EL

Thanks. Well thought out and presented. And yes, I have been banging around these old bikes a long time too.

As a few of my old friends (like John Parham) told me years ago, over time my interests will grow on ever older motorcycles. I laughed at him and jumped on my "ancient" 1947 Knucklehead and rode away.

Recently I discovered the pleasures of owning and riding a 1915 Harley. Still love the Knucks though.

[parkerize]

Cool thread. For whatever its worth I agree with 46 EL that JDs will probably never go the path of knuckles, at least from a value perspective. I also agree with an earlier poster that unfortunately there is a real chance they eventually go the route of model Ts. Nonetheless, setting aside value, its kinda crazy from a pure enjoyment perspective. I have a buncha OHV crap (ELs and FLs) as well as later chiefs. Although the machines from the late 30s, 40s and 50s used to really float my boat, I hardly ride them anymore (other than a 37 el on 18s which at best I give occassional use). About 15 years ago I really focused on pre 36 junk as I much prefer riding and even working on them. Generally lighter, more nimble, more mechanical and a more primative ride with bar and frame geometry. When you jump on a VL, JD or say a 101, you know you are riding an antique. Its hard not to grin ear to ear for the the first few miles. I just find them more fun to ride, especially on 4 x 18s, 19s on the VLs and larger going backwards. Just my opinion but my 47 EL feels like a couch on wheels riding on 5 x 16s and with the king of the highway group its somewhat of a pig. The 40s and 50s bikes on 16s "feel" much like a modern day bike to me. I'm not sure why so many people are nuts over knuckles but I certainly respect different strokes for diferent folks (especially against the fact i was in this same frenzy 15 years ago). On a different note, I also dont understand why the 74 and 80 side valves are not commanding more money against their torque, relative ease to work on and reliability (especially the earlier models riding on 18s). All obviously just my opinion. Although the Js may not become the new knuckles (especially against overall production numbers), I'm happy alot of the new guys can get into our sport at a more affordable level. At the same time they will have a blast tooling around on these early machines. Thanks for starting the thread Buzz.

[46EL]

I think there is a lot of interest and a big following in UL's but the majority are being built as bobbers and customs. And I think it is because so many of the parts cross over into the Knuckle world that they are too expensive to build as original BT Flatheads. I wish I counted how many fairly nice original UL's I saw in the last 10 years that got their motors yanked and sold with the Gas Tanks so someone could build or convert them to a knuckle. And if you do build a semi original UL you better plan on keeping it forever as when it comes to selling it someday they seem to never be worth more than what they are worth in parts. 46EL

[Slojo]

I like them best tall and slender 28 X 2.5 (that is diameter and width) suites me just fine. Although variety is the spice of life.
Joe

[LouieMCman]

My question is the same as fabers, why skip over the VL's? They are lower, fun to ride, a lot cheaper, and still have either 19" or 18" wheels. Of course they will never be worth what the Knuckles are..........

[jurassic]

so far the interested bikes for a new york to san francisco run include:
1 101 scout
1 indian 4
2 triumph
2 henderson
5 kj henderson
8 jd harley

[Buzz Kanter]

I like them best tall and slender 28 X 2.5 (that is diameter and width) suites me just fine. Although variety is the spice of life.
Joe

Tall and slendar? Joe - is that blondes, brunettes or red heads? We were walking about motorcycles ya know :-)

[Buzz Kanter]

so far the interested bikes for a new york to san francisco run include:
1 101 scout
1 indian 4
2 triumph
2 henderson
5 kj henderson
8 jd harley

Lonnie, this reply really does deserve its own thread. And good luck with the next one - anything I can do to help?