old photos

[Barry Brown]

Did You Notice The Banking Sidecar Lever As Well! Douglas Was Quite A Company

[c.o.]

This fella wasn't afraid to throw one around......



Another shot with Freddie.....

[Tommo]

I hope this works.
How would you classify this Ace Four. A motorcycle with a trailer or is it a car because of it's four wheels.
The photograph was taken in Ashburton, NZ in late 1924 or very early 1925.

[c.o.]

That's a super cool pic Tommo! I'd have to say it's a motorcycle with a trailer..

Here's a couple shots from Kansas.....

[William McClean]

Rear car

Tommo,

It is a Rear Car, as opposed to a Side Car or a Fore Car.

The Cygnet Rear Car Company , of Buffalo NY. produced a couple versions, one for 3 passengers the Pleasure Model " The Little Brother to the Automobile " as well as a Delivery Van.

" Fits any Standard Motorcycle "
" On and off in 30 seconds "

[Tommo]

William,
Any ideas how they worked.
There appears to be a bar similar to a swingle-tree attached to the front frame downtubes and it has what appears to be a short, single leaf spring going from it onto the trailer frame. The main deck appears to supported by a further spring that is visible behind the riders leg but I can't deduce how the whole thing pivots and turns. Maybe I'm a bit thick but I just can't see how the trailer allows the bike to turn within that subframe and I would like to think that the riders legs are not as venerable as they appear.

[HarleyCreation]

Anybody know who's piloting the J-Model in this pic?

This is a H-D publicity shot. The guy on the bike is Hap Jameson and the girl is the famous "Steno," Hap's secretary when he was editor of the Enthusiast magazine in the 1920s. He said she had plenty of "sox appeal" and she did. Her real name was Francis Kilbert and she was Joe Kilbert's then unmarried sister, who also worked in the office at H-D. She was very popular around there and you can see why.

[William McClean]

Motorized Rickshaw

Tommo,

I see your single tree,
and raise you an exhaust pipe.

I see the single leaf sticking forward of a clamp at the end of the arm curving up to the single tree that attaches to the front down tub. Trailing the down tube, here, to allow fender clearance. That is about the only pivot I see.

Behind the heel of the rider, bending down and looking like a leaf spring is the exhaust pipe off the 4 cylinder Ace. Bending upward is part of the trellis frame of rear car. On top of that piece is a bit of wood to attach the deck.

There is traditional leaf spring on each side of the axle of the car. The weight is on the axle not on the machine.

As short a wheel base base as that is, about like a modern trike, I think it was much more steering involved than Counter steering. I'll bet it handled like a lumber wagon .

[Tommo]

Just behind the riders calf muscle there is a mount visible and from that what appears to be a spring curving upwards and back onto the deck frame.
If the front downtubes are the only point of attachment that contraption must have been a real frame breaker as you will have 3 seperate arcs fighting one another when-ever you turn and if it was loaded it wouldn't be the two rear wheels that would be letting go,either the back driving wheel would break traction and skid sideways or the front wheel would just sledge along with no effect on directional steerage at all.
Anybody out there know how these things worked ?

[William McClean]

You are right, Tommo, that upper is a leaf, not a rigid trellis member. In the Advertisment for the the 3 Passenger Pleasure Model it appears that it may have 2 leaves there. One can presume it is for more luxurious comfort than cargo requires.

IF it Pivots on the down tube, it would not apply the pressure and twisting action on the frame of teh machine that a rigid mount in that location would. A rigid rectangular frame, pulled and pivoting on a single down tube. The Arches of the leaf springs designed to absord the verticle travel. I can see some horizontal twisting action on those forward leaves { bending upward from the Arms to the Single Tree } when turning. With the abundance of clearance for the rear wheel and fender, fishtailing a bit shouldn't be a problem. Bumps and ruts causing verticle travel of the rear wheel seem to have clearance also.

Dale at The Wheels thru Time Museum in Maggie Valley has a Cygnet Rear Car Delivery Van model mounted to a 20's HD. This is the Museum That Runs, he may be able to shed some light on the performance of the rig as well as mounting information.

In any event, not many survived. There must be some design flaws in the system.

[rwm]

rainy friday night on the east coast

[Barry Brown]

[Barry Brown]

[c.o.]

This is a H-D publicity shot. The guy on the bike is Hap Jameson and the girl is the famous "Steno," Hap's secretary when he was editor of the Enthusiast magazine in the 1920s. He said she had plenty of "sox appeal" and she did. Her real name was Francis Kilbert and she was Joe Kilbert's then unmarried sister, who also worked in the office at H-D. She was very popular around there and you can see why.

Well, Herb wins! Thanks for the background on "Steno" she does have "sox appeal" doesn't she?

[c.o.]

rainy friday night on the east coast

That's one crazy looking rig Rob! Could you imagine going into a speed wobble on that puppy?