AMCA Membership fees to increase to $40 in July

[Spag]

Rich O,
You do have a way of getting right to the point! Always did. Thanks for your historical and current perspective on the events which occurred within the AMCA over the years.
Richard

[fillibuster]

Dear Shelby:
You have quite a resume, and I applaud your commitment(s). You couldn't have done it all without leadership skills and personal attachment to what you love. No one should doubt your degree of passion for our sport.
We may have experienced a similar (to Eustis) transition with the Viking Chapter when they left Farmington and hosted their meet in the Great Hall (correct?) on the State Fairgrounds in St Paul. Farmington was more spacious than Eustis, and much more accommodating to vendors than St Paul's venue, and you didn't have to drive through a "jungle" (most common complaint) to get there. Vendor participation dropped disastrously (my opinion, and many others"), and many of them have serious "sore spots", and they declare that they'll never come to St Paul. ...... But the chapter has endured in their commitment there, and some vendors have dropped their attitude and returned to their activities in St Paul, and those showing their bikes and those viewing bikes have come and, having dropped their bias, have grown to appreciate the Great Hall (especially when it rains!), and the showers/laundry/biffers (rumor has it they've installed bidet's!) are like the finest I've seen at any meet! As family-friendly as you can get. The hosts' enthusiasm is strong, guests attend in large volume, and it's a showcase any new visitor would appreciate.

Alas, our dear Farmington fades into the past. My very first AMCA meet in 1990 I got absolutely drenched in a cold rain, and I loved it! Did field events, covered all the vendors, always bought what I could, took the grandkids on rides around the pasture, slept on the ground without a tent (or under Bill Rodencal's trailer), bumped elbows with all the Knucklehead Company, covered more vendors with the grandsons, putted around the vendor spots in the sidecar with the kids,... and did I mention that I appreciate vending more than anything else at a swap meet?

But it moved. And guess what? It's still good, and my Viking hosts made the call and they're sticking to it. And I can like it if I LET MYSELF ENJOY it.

So work with what you got. If I ever visit Florida again I'll look for your meet there in Eustis (national or not), or see you at D-port, wherever. If you set up a meet on a 10-acre farmstead with an enchanted forest (poison ivy, itch-weed, ditch-weed, and no two trees without "something" parked between them), I'll bring my A-game. ...... My point is: that you must know, as a leader, that you make more friends and influence more people, and get more results, with POSITIVES, than with NEGATIVES. I doubt that you've won over new members with renegade talk. Just let evolution take care of things negative. Things good will survive despite the detractors, might thrive. Positive stays strong. Negative just gets to be a pain in the drain, especially on vacation. ..... AMCA is a great vacation!

Wish you well in your (positive) endeavors.

[BoschZEV]

It's an inevitable aspect of a Club like this that members span a continuum from those with an interest in old motorcycles to those who make a significant fraction of their income selling goods and services. For the latter the specifics of a site, and where their booths are located within that site, significantly affects their finances. "Vendors" certainly should have input into the location but, to me at least, it seems equally clear that because of their clear financial conflict of interest that their input needs to be appropriately weighed. A universal standard is that decisions of any kind should be made by people with no direct conflict of interest in the given matter. Yes, examples to the contrary can be cited, but this is the standard by which the behavior of organizations is judged, especially when things get contentious.

There are 10,000+ AMCA members including probably fewer than 500 "major vendors" (by which I mean people who derive a significant fraction of their income from selling at swap meets). Something would be seriously wrong if that 5% of the Club -- important and wanted as they are as members -- had undue influence on Club matters for which they had significant financial interest.

For example, the experience of a major vendor could be quite valuable and that person might be an excellent member of the Board of a local Club. However, whenever decisions that have significant effect on their income are being discussed (e.g. the site for a swap meet), they should declare that they have a conflict (even when "everyone" knows of the conflict), limit their discussion to providing their perspective, and then refrain from any subsequent debate by other Board members, and most certainly recuse themselves from any voting. In circumstances like this it is the norm for the person with the conflict to leave the room while the debate and voting is taking place because their presence alone is undue influence over their fellow Board members who are their friends and colleagues.

[Spag]

Phil,
Just like Rich O, you get right to the point but maybe with a few more words. Positive works when communicating with others. Negative does not. A very simple concept. One has to wonder why some have never learned from this simple lesson. Criticism is to be expected when one is in a leadership role. But perpetually angry, venomous and negative rhetoric almost never receives a response from the recipient. Again one has to wonder why the spewer of this negative rhetoric never understands why no one wants to engage him. Thanks for your insight.
Richard

[Spag]

BoschZEV,
You make a good point about conflict of interest. The Board was faced with a similar situation a few years back. It involved approving expenditures for the AMCA Chief Judge (the CJ prior to the current CJ). Because the matter became so contentious with the CJ, who was a Board Member, the Board decided that having the CJ as a Board Member and deciding on his budget was a direct conflict of interest that could not be remedied by just having the CJ recuse himself from the vote. Instead, the Board passed a rule which forbids the CJ from becoming a Board Memebr for these reasons. Now the Board doesn't have to face a similar situation if it would ever arise.
Richard

[rwm]

If the sunshine chapter hates silversand location so much, Why do they continue to volunteer their time and effort?

[shelbyinparadise]

Thank you for your insightful answer and coments as well as Richards clarification of current events at Silver Sands. Your personalized description of swap meet experiences as a person as well as the descriptions of the venue change problems was refreshing. Although health issues have severely limited my ability to be an active vendor now, I look back on the 45 years I have vended Coast to coast, in the old days to pay for the gas and find parts for customers, with many warm thoughts.

Your acknowledgement of the vendor problems and the eventual healing of the Chapter and Vendors was balanced, both the positive and negative. There is such a fine line when talking about a problem or issue, when discussing a negative it is easy for the casual reader to perceive the writer in the wrong light. Trying to correct a perceived notion in text is difficult at best.

As Richard pointed out a lot of the issues raised were well below the level of National Control after the fact. His statements of trying to help improve the existing problems at least bears out there were problems and is a positive step. I have stated it to Richard and others, I have dedicated my retirement to helping my local chapter be the best it can be, and I am Proud of my work for improving the AMCA for all. Look forward to meeting with you in the future. Shelby

[shelbyinparadise]

Shelby and BoschZEV,
The AMCA Board relies on local Chapters to choose a venue for an AMCA National Meet. The Chapter Officers and Members know their geographical area better then the AMCA Board. The current Board has never dictated where a Chapter must hold a National Meet and we never will. However, the Board does review all chosen venues but does not substitute its own judgment when it comes to a Chapter's decision on a venue.

Regarding the parking issue at the New Smyrna location, with the increase in popularity of this meet, attendee parking has increased. The Chapter and the Board addressed the problem associated with increased parking needs and space limitations within the venue. The problem was addressed to the extent possible. The Board will continue to offer suggestions to the Sunshine Chapter on all matters related to this venue. But there are no problems with this venue that would require the Board to review its original decision to approve the New Symrna location. If the Sunshine Chapter wanted to relocate, the Officers would simply apply to the Board for a change in venue.

As BoschZEV stated, there will always be problems and disagreement with any venue chosen by a local Chapter. And Shelby you and I know as well as anyone who has ever attended an AMCA National Meet in Florida, when it rains in Florida, no venue is immune from the ravages rain can inflict on any motorcycle swap meet.

Shelby, thanks for the ongoing positive discussion.
Richard

Thanks Richard, Yes it has been a positive discussion, and I am glad to have the forum back as a way to talk about AMCA issues, Positive or Negative in a respectful manner. There will always be the site sharks with snide, crude or just downright playful mayhem, that disrupt the conversation, but so is life. Shelby

[Keith Kizer]

I thought I should chime in on a couple of comments.

Drew - FYI, You started in 1990.

JWI - To date, I have received a single application from anyone who would like to be included in October's board elections. Also, you mentioned $10 x 10,000 members was to pay for the ED. Does that mean they were supposed to pay me $100,000 salary? Maybe I should go back and renegotiate, I'm well short of that figure.

Rich O - On the subject of the ED pay, I can assure you the increase in dues had nothing to do with that. By the AMCA hiring me also greatly reduced fees paid to outside contractors to conduct business. The AMCA long ago surpassed the all volunteer boards ability to keep up with the needs of so many chapters and members. When a club grows to this size it takes full-time help to sustain it or to grow it. I can attest to the fact that I put in no less than 60 hours a week not counting National weekends. With an organization this size there are constant maintenance issues to deal with and fix in addition to constant communication with registration, magazine, website, merchandise, judging staff, contractors, and/or volunteers. Then there is communicating as needed with chapter Presidents, newsletter editors, in a plethora of subjects including National meet needs, insurance, future planning, newsletters, etc.

Back to the dues increase, I would challenge anyone to come up with a national company, club or organization that has not had an increase if fees in a dozen years. As you all know the cost of doing anything has increase on an annual basis, let alone a decade. In my humble opinion the dues increase should have come at the same time the club increased the magazine from four to six issues. The magazine is the main communication device to the membership and one of the primary benefits to membership. Trust me, we are not making money on the magazine. It holds it own, but on paper it is not a profit center for the club. It is a vital necessity but not here for the purpose of lining anyone's pocket.

On the offer to subsidize for those who cannot afford the increase. Great idea and thank you. I'll jump on that bandwagon and pay for 10 people's increase too. With that, maybe we should create a fund just for that purpose. I doubt that many would publicly come on this forum and admit they need the help, but we can all agree, some just do. This could be something we create and have Cornerstone hold the funds and distribute on an as-needed basis with complete confidentiality for those who ask for it.

[RichO]

Keith, Please reread my post. I never said the increase was a problem. I stated that another magazine would cost the same as ours with our dues increase and not give us the additional benefits. We were told your salary was $90k with some benefits so my rough math was close or we were told wrong. I didn't say your not earning it or that your position wasn't needed if I recall. No defense needed. I hope to see you at Rhinebeck this coming Friday. Rich Ostrander #47

[Keith Kizer]

By the way, do the math, 10,000 members at $10 equals the new Director yearly pay.

Rich, I was just making reference to this part of your comment and just want to explain myself and make sure I didn't leave any money on the table for negotiations. I was trying to be humorous but that doesn't always work when typing. We're good!

On the same note I would like to say that during the hiring process, there was a salary range for the ED job. I voluntarily took the lowest possible salary (no where near the $90,000 figure stated.) I felt I was the best candidate for the job and said I do not deserve a penny more until I prove myself an asset to the club. I also took no benefits (health insurance) even though it was offered. Hey, I'm cheap, literally and figuratively.

[jwl]

I thought I should chime in on a couple of comments.

Drew - FYI, You started in 1990.

JWI - To date, I have received a single application from anyone who would like to be included in October's board elections. Also, you mentioned $10 x 10,000 members was to pay for the ED. Does that mean they were supposed to pay me $100,000 salary? Maybe I should go back and renegotiate, I'm well short of that figure.

Rich O - On the subject of the ED pay, I can assure you the increase in dues had nothing to do with that. By the AMCA hiring me also greatly reduced fees paid to outside contractors to conduct business. The AMCA long ago surpassed the all volunteer boards ability to keep up with the needs of so many chapters and members. When a club grows to this size it takes full-time help to sustain it or to grow it. I can attest to the fact that I put in no less than 60 hours a week not counting National weekends. With an organization this size there are constant maintenance issues to deal with and fix in addition to constant communication with registration, magazine, website, merchandise, judging staff, contractors, and/or volunteers. Then there is communicating as needed with chapter Presidents, newsletter editors, in a plethora of subjects including National meet needs, insurance, future planning, newsletters, etc.

Back to the dues increase, I would challenge anyone to come up with a national company, club or organization that has not had an increase if fees in a dozen years. As you all know the cost of doing anything has increase on an annual basis, let alone a decade. In my humble opinion the dues increase should have come at the same time the club increased the magazine from four to six issues. The magazine is the main communication device to the membership and one of the primary benefits to membership. Trust me, we are not making money on the magazine. It holds it own, but on paper it is not a profit center for the club. It is a vital necessity but not here for the purpose of lining anyone's pocket.

On the offer to subsidize for those who cannot afford the increase. Great idea and thank you. I'll jump on that bandwagon and pay for 10 people's increase too. With that, maybe we should create a fund just for that purpose. I doubt that many would publicly come on this forum and admit they need the help, but we can all agree, some just do. This could be something we create and have Cornerstone hold the funds and distribute on an as-needed basis with complete confidentiality for those who ask for it.

Keith, Did I say anything about ED's pay?? My memory is going south in a hurry but I don't think I made a comment on that order. John Lindemann

[shelbyinparadise]

I thought I should chime in on a couple of comments.

Please note no disrespect intended here Keith, Richard assigned you to look into multiple problems, I noticed Richard showed you how to answer a question of a negative nature with only positive comments. First Problem From National Board Minutes, Lack of parking at smaller Venue from year one. Answer:
"Regarding the parking issue at the New Smyrna location, with the increase in popularity of this meet, attendee parking has increased. The Chapter and the Board addressed the problem associated with increased parking needs and space limitations within the venue. The problem was addressed to the extent possible." Shrinking from 5 days the first year for chapter members, to now a two day event, a smaller crowd needs more space, and with judging moved to Saturday from Sunday, more trucks and trailers are showing up for the unloading of bikes making it difficult for Vendor sales. Only Richard brought up the Rain 3 of 4 years, not me, but the tractor pulls were mentioned on forum

Second problem was the great success of the AMCA recruiting program, Paraphrasing here Bill Woods reports 80% retention rate for magazine last two years, and Richard sees an upwards curve with the program. Since all members receive the magazine that means we are losing 20 % of our members per year. My experience with the membership of the Cherokee Chapter when I started our reach out program with Steve Klein and other members the first one we signed up had # 20688, this week our last new member had 27098, a loss of 6,300 members while membership is still 10,500. We have over 16,500 on face book. Not all must be current members.

I am only pointing out here that using only positive words, ignores discussing the problems in a professional manner to solve challenges, not problems? Shelby

[rwm]

With 16,500 face book user it looks like life has become a digital world. Lets do away with the troublesome swap meets and hard copy magazine. So much will be saved money wise by sending it to digital subscribers and more will be reached.

[BigLakeBob]

Let's all hope you are joking.

With 16,500 face book user it looks like life has become a digital world. Lets do away with the troublesome swap meets and hard copy magazine. So much will be saved money wise by sending it to digital subscribers and more will be reached.