deluxe solo seat rosettes

[ryan]

Why are you hesitant to name the supplier? Are you saying that all the metal hardware (except for the spoon) was supplied by Standard Rivet Company or some other company?

You got it, Standard Rivet Company. Did not want to upset the retail bag and seat makers. lol Anyway, the choncho/rosette cutters are Supplies buy Osborne Tool Company.

https://www.standardrivet.com

https://www.csosborneleathertools.co...l.php?p_id=369

[FCJ]

All the metal hardware, except for the spoon, can be bought from the original supplier that is still in business, which I am very hesitant to name.

Why are you hesitant to name the supplier? Are you saying that all the metal hardware (except for the spoon) was supplied by Standard Rivet Company or some other company?

[ryan]

Multiple types of washers were used for Deluxe Solo Saddle rosettes. I believe that a 5/8 inch (outside diameter) washer may have been used for the earliest version of the Deluxe Solo Saddle rosette. For comparison, I believe that a 3/4 inch (outside diameter) washer may have been used for the earliest version of the Deluxe Buddy Seat rosette. I don't know how many types of washers were used for Deluxe Buddy Seat rosettes.

Example 1 (not sure what type of washer):


Example 2 (different type of washer, but not sure what type):


Example 3 (NOS; not sure what type of washer; possibly #10 finishing washer?):


Example 4 (early version of Deluxe Buddy Seat rosette; possibly 3/4 inch O.D. washer?):


Example 5 (reproductions):


Example 6 (accessory "Hi-Ho" leather rosettes; 11754-46):

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[END]

All the metal hardware, except for the spoon, can be bought from the original supplier that is still in business, which I am very hesitant to name. The cutters for the, leather, round corner rosettes is still made and can still be bought, but the pointed edge rosette cutters are hard to find as they are no longer made, but can be made to order by a number of suppliers. I have only seen one of the five flower design stamps, but it was not in a cutter.

[FCJ]

The rosette on the seat has what looks like a chrome washer under the head of the rivet.

Multiple types of washers were used for Deluxe Solo Saddle rosettes. I believe that a 5/8 inch (outside diameter) washer may have been used for the earliest version of the Deluxe Solo Saddle rosette. For comparison, I believe that a 3/4 inch (outside diameter) washer may have been used for the earliest version of the Deluxe Buddy Seat rosette. I don't know how many types of washers were used for Deluxe Buddy Seat rosettes.

Example 1 (not sure what type of washer):


Example 2 (different type of washer, but not sure what type):


Example 3 (NOS; not sure what type of washer; possibly #10 finishing washer?):


Example 4 (early version of Deluxe Buddy Seat rosette; possibly 3/4 inch O.D. washer?):


Example 5 (reproductions):


Example 6 (accessory "Hi-Ho" leather rosettes; 11754-46):

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[END]

[FCJ]

On page 687 of Palmer's 2nd edition at the bottom of the right hand column there's a pic of a '47-'54 solo. The script reads that the rosettes were leather. But in the left hand column at the top, he states that the rosettes were plastic. Did they start as leather and were replace with plastic, or did they come either way?

Follow Up (re: possible earlier versions of rosettes). As to the Deluxe Solo Saddle (Milsco Part No. H031; HD Part No. 3181-47), I believe that, effective April 17, 1947, (a) the housing (aka skirt) was changed from leather to black Panolene plastic and (b) rosettes and spots were added to the housing.

Note that, at least at the time, the subject rosettes were different than (i) the Deluxe Buddy Seat rosettes, (ii) the Lock-Tite saddlebag rosettes, and (ii) the accessory rosettes. And, HD referred to the version of the subject seat pictured in the November 1947 Enthusiast as follows: “It is decorated with jewels and plastic ornaments.”

As to the subject seat, I have only seen references to plastic rosettes. I haven’t yet seen the original October 11, 1946 Milsco Drawing No. AG071 for the side housing subassembly (Milsco Part No. G071). But, even if leather rosettes were ever specified or used for any version of the subject seat (e.g., any mock-up, prototype, test version, or early production version), it looks like they weren’t used for long.

As to the seat pictured on page 687, I believe that the caption is incorrect. The page 687 seat was probably produced after September 1947.

Note that the page 687 seat is different than earlier versions of the subject seat (with 2 rivets in the back housing piece; 27 rivets in each side housing piece; and possibly different washers).

I can’t find it now, but I have previously seen a factory photo of a version of a Deluxe Solo Saddle (pictured all by itself) that may highlight some of the distinguishing features of earlier versions. I believe that the photo may have been taken in or about June or July 1947.

[FCJ]

You have seen pics on facebook

If that is your seat, it is rare. But, I believe that it's considered rare because Deluxe Solo Saddles with plastic covers and open seams are rare. More rare for MY1952 than for MY1951. Not much time between (a) the change from from leather covers to plastic covers and (b) the change from open seams to closed seams.

[FCJ]

You have seen pics on facebook

With "vinyl top, leather skirt"? Did Adam M. recently post some photos of your seat? I thought that seat had a Royalite (ABS type) plastic cover and a Panolene plastic skirt.

[D.A.Bagin]

Is the cover (a) vinyl or (b) an ABS type plastic composite material? I understand that the terms vinyl and plastic are often used interchangeably and otherwise pretty loosely.

Is the skirt (a) leather or (b) plastic? As to rare features for a MY1952 style Deluxe Solo Saddle (DSS), an open (aka raw) seam by itself is generally considered rare. A MY1952 style DSS with a plastic cover and a leather skirt may be almost unheard of. I'm no expert. Experts disagree on many of these issues. But, to my knowledge, experts generally agree on the skirt material for the MY1952 style DSS.

I would love to see any photos of the seat that you are willing to share. I may be able to help identify the model year and/or some of the materials.

You have seen pics on facebook

[D.A.Bagin]

I can text pics to whoever wants them my phone seems to have issues emailing pm a phone number and ill send

[FCJ]

On page 687 of Palmer's 2nd edition at the bottom of the right hand column there's a pic of a '47-'54 solo. The script reads that the rosettes were leather. But in the left hand column at the top, he states that the rosettes were plastic. Did they start as leather and were replace with plastic, or did they come either way?

It would be difficult to take a photo of a “1947-1954” Deluxe Solo Saddle (DSS) because many different versions of the DSS were used for that time period, including police versions and civilian versions with different covers, skirts, rosettes, spots, and seams.

Plastic rosettes were used for the last version of the rosette style civilian DSS for MY1947 and each version of the rosette style civilian DSS thereafter.

I’m not currently sure about the rosettes for earlier versions of the civilian DSS for MY1947.

[FCJ]

I have a seat that came from an elderly person that told me it is a 52 take-off when bike was new as he wanted a buddy to ride his wife. It has plastic rosettes. It is in as new condition with appropriate age. Vinyl top, leather skirt. Open seam cobbler edge. From what I'm told it is quite rare to be with these features. I can text pics if anyone wants and can tell me if it is what it is.

Is the cover (a) vinyl or (b) an ABS type plastic composite material? I understand that the terms vinyl and plastic are often used interchangeably and otherwise pretty loosely.

Is the skirt (a) leather or (b) plastic? As to rare features for a MY1952 style Deluxe Solo Saddle (DSS), an open (aka raw) seam by itself is generally considered rare. A MY1952 style DSS with a plastic cover and a leather skirt may be almost unheard of. I'm no expert. Experts disagree on many of these issues. But, to my knowledge, experts generally agree on the skirt material for the MY1952 style DSS.

I would love to see any photos of the seat that you are willing to share. I may be able to help identify the model year and/or some of the materials.

[FCJ]

I'd be interested in a couple pics if you so desire. Interesting that the top is vinyl and the skirt is leather. I've been tracking one on FleaBay that has a leather top and a plastic skirt, and the rosettes are plastic. I'm guessing it's after market, and it's going for pretty large shekels right now.

As to the “RARE NOS … OEM” ebay seat (currently at $2,025 with 34 bids), IMO, contrary to the listing, Milsco wasn’t making rosette-style Deluxe Solo Saddles in the early 1970s.

IMO, of the differences between the ebay seat and a typical OEM seat (e.g., shell; skirt; binding; rosettes; spots; rivets; tacks; thread; sewing; stitches; etc.), rosettes, spots, and tacks may be some of the most readily apparent.

For example, the OEM skirt (aka housing in Milsco documents and cowling in some HD literature) was generally tacked and sewed. And, the spots are very different (e.g., size; quantity; positioning; spacing; assembly; etc.).

The ebay seat appears to be a very nice seat and worth some money. But, it does not appear to be a NOS OEM seat. As to the money, I don’t know if the buyer knows, or will ever know, the difference. I’m guessing that bidders may be relying on the description of the seat.

Note that the other Deluxe Solo Saddle pictured in the listing photos is also not OEM.

[D.A.Bagin]

I'd be interested in a couple pics if you so desire. Interesting that the top is vinyl and the skirt is leather. I've been tracking one on FleaBay that has a leather top and a plastic skirt, and the rosettes are plastic. I'm guessing it's after market, and it's going for pretty large shekels right now.

pm number and what you want

[41craig]

Well, now we have narrowed it down to 1946 was leather and 1952 was plastic.
Craig

[Omarttentmaker]

I'd be interested in a couple pics if you so desire. Interesting that the top is vinyl and the skirt is leather. I've been tracking one on FleaBay that has a leather top and a plastic skirt, and the rosettes are plastic. I'm guessing it's after market, and it's going for pretty large shekels right now.