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deluxe solo seat rosettes

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  • deluxe solo seat rosettes

    On page 687 of Palmer's 2nd edition at the bottom of the right hand column there's a pic of a '47-'54 solo. The script reads that the rosettes were leather. But in the left hand column at the top, he states that the rosettes were plastic. Did they start as leather and were replace with plastic, or did they come either way?

  • #2
    Palmer repeats the same info on pages 803 and 804 of the 3rd edition. It appears to be different than the accessory "Hi-Ho" Leather Rosettes Part # 11754-46. The rosette on the seat has what looks like a chrome washer under the head of the rivet.CIMG1814.jpgCIMG1815.jpgCIMG1817.jpgCIMG1818.jpg

    Craig

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    • #3
      Originally posted by 41craig View Post
      Palmer repeats the same info on pages 803 and 804 of the 3rd edition. It appears to be different than the accessory "Hi-Ho" Leather Rosettes Part # 11754-46. The rosette on the seat has what looks like a chrome washer under the head of the rivet.[ATTACH=CONFIG]29122[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]29123[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]29124[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]29125[/ATTACH]

      Craig
      And those High-Low rosettes came in plastic as well, along with different color combinations. Which still doesn't help with the timeline of when they changed from leather to plastic.
      Attached Files
      Last edited by Rubone; 07-28-2020, 06:30 PM.
      Robbie Knight Amca #2736

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      • #4
        I have a seat that came from an elderly person that told me it is a 52 take-off when bike was new as he wanted a buddy to ride his wife. It has plastic rosettes. It is in as new condition with appropriate age. Vinyl top, leather skirt. Open seam cobbler edge. From what I'm told it is quite rare to be with these features. I can text pics if anyone wants and can tell me if it is what it is.
        D. A. Bagin #3166 AKA Panheadzz 440 48chief W/sidecar 57fl 57flh 58fl 66m-50 68flh 70xlh

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        • #5
          I'd be interested in a couple pics if you so desire. Interesting that the top is vinyl and the skirt is leather. I've been tracking one on FleaBay that has a leather top and a plastic skirt, and the rosettes are plastic. I'm guessing it's after market, and it's going for pretty large shekels right now.

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          • #6
            Well, now we have narrowed it down to 1946 was leather and 1952 was plastic.
            Craig

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Omarttentmaker View Post
              I'd be interested in a couple pics if you so desire. Interesting that the top is vinyl and the skirt is leather. I've been tracking one on FleaBay that has a leather top and a plastic skirt, and the rosettes are plastic. I'm guessing it's after market, and it's going for pretty large shekels right now.
              pm number and what you want
              D. A. Bagin #3166 AKA Panheadzz 440 48chief W/sidecar 57fl 57flh 58fl 66m-50 68flh 70xlh

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Omarttentmaker View Post
                I'd be interested in a couple pics if you so desire. Interesting that the top is vinyl and the skirt is leather. I've been tracking one on FleaBay that has a leather top and a plastic skirt, and the rosettes are plastic. I'm guessing it's after market, and it's going for pretty large shekels right now.
                As to the “RARE NOS … OEM” ebay seat (currently at $2,025 with 34 bids), IMO, contrary to the listing, Milsco wasn’t making rosette-style Deluxe Solo Saddles in the early 1970s.

                IMO, of the differences between the ebay seat and a typical OEM seat (e.g., shell; skirt; binding; rosettes; spots; rivets; tacks; thread; sewing; stitches; etc.), rosettes, spots, and tacks may be some of the most readily apparent.

                For example, the OEM skirt (aka housing in Milsco documents and cowling in some HD literature) was generally tacked and sewed. And, the spots are very different (e.g., size; quantity; positioning; spacing; assembly; etc.).

                The ebay seat appears to be a very nice seat and worth some money. But, it does not appear to be a NOS OEM seat. As to the money, I don’t know if the buyer knows, or will ever know, the difference. I’m guessing that bidders may be relying on the description of the seat.

                Note that the other Deluxe Solo Saddle pictured in the listing photos is also not OEM.
                Fletcher Clark Johnston
                AMCA #282

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by D.A.Bagin View Post
                  I have a seat that came from an elderly person that told me it is a 52 take-off when bike was new as he wanted a buddy to ride his wife. It has plastic rosettes. It is in as new condition with appropriate age. Vinyl top, leather skirt. Open seam cobbler edge. From what I'm told it is quite rare to be with these features. I can text pics if anyone wants and can tell me if it is what it is.
                  Is the cover (a) vinyl or (b) an ABS type plastic composite material? I understand that the terms vinyl and plastic are often used interchangeably and otherwise pretty loosely.

                  Is the skirt (a) leather or (b) plastic? As to rare features for a MY1952 style Deluxe Solo Saddle (DSS), an open (aka raw) seam by itself is generally considered rare. A MY1952 style DSS with a plastic cover and a leather skirt may be almost unheard of. I'm no expert. Experts disagree on many of these issues. But, to my knowledge, experts generally agree on the skirt material for the MY1952 style DSS.

                  I would love to see any photos of the seat that you are willing to share. I may be able to help identify the model year and/or some of the materials.
                  Fletcher Clark Johnston
                  AMCA #282

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Omarttentmaker View Post
                    On page 687 of Palmer's 2nd edition at the bottom of the right hand column there's a pic of a '47-'54 solo. The script reads that the rosettes were leather. But in the left hand column at the top, he states that the rosettes were plastic. Did they start as leather and were replace with plastic, or did they come either way?
                    It would be difficult to take a photo of a “1947-1954” Deluxe Solo Saddle (DSS) because many different versions of the DSS were used for that time period, including police versions and civilian versions with different covers, skirts, rosettes, spots, and seams.

                    Plastic rosettes were used for the last version of the rosette style civilian DSS for MY1947 and each version of the rosette style civilian DSS thereafter.

                    I’m not currently sure about the rosettes for earlier versions of the civilian DSS for MY1947.
                    Fletcher Clark Johnston
                    AMCA #282

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                    • #11
                      I can text pics to whoever wants them my phone seems to have issues emailing pm a phone number and ill send
                      D. A. Bagin #3166 AKA Panheadzz 440 48chief W/sidecar 57fl 57flh 58fl 66m-50 68flh 70xlh

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by FCJ View Post
                        Is the cover (a) vinyl or (b) an ABS type plastic composite material? I understand that the terms vinyl and plastic are often used interchangeably and otherwise pretty loosely.

                        Is the skirt (a) leather or (b) plastic? As to rare features for a MY1952 style Deluxe Solo Saddle (DSS), an open (aka raw) seam by itself is generally considered rare. A MY1952 style DSS with a plastic cover and a leather skirt may be almost unheard of. I'm no expert. Experts disagree on many of these issues. But, to my knowledge, experts generally agree on the skirt material for the MY1952 style DSS.

                        I would love to see any photos of the seat that you are willing to share. I may be able to help identify the model year and/or some of the materials.
                        You have seen pics on facebook
                        D. A. Bagin #3166 AKA Panheadzz 440 48chief W/sidecar 57fl 57flh 58fl 66m-50 68flh 70xlh

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by D.A.Bagin View Post
                          You have seen pics on facebook
                          With "vinyl top, leather skirt"? Did Adam M. recently post some photos of your seat? I thought that seat had a Royalite (ABS type) plastic cover and a Panolene plastic skirt.
                          Fletcher Clark Johnston
                          AMCA #282

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by D.A.Bagin View Post
                            You have seen pics on facebook
                            If that is your seat, it is rare. But, I believe that it's considered rare because Deluxe Solo Saddles with plastic covers and open seams are rare. More rare for MY1952 than for MY1951. Not much time between (a) the change from from leather covers to plastic covers and (b) the change from open seams to closed seams.
                            Fletcher Clark Johnston
                            AMCA #282

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Omarttentmaker View Post
                              On page 687 of Palmer's 2nd edition at the bottom of the right hand column there's a pic of a '47-'54 solo. The script reads that the rosettes were leather. But in the left hand column at the top, he states that the rosettes were plastic. Did they start as leather and were replace with plastic, or did they come either way?
                              Follow Up (re: possible earlier versions of rosettes). As to the Deluxe Solo Saddle (Milsco Part No. H031; HD Part No. 3181-47), I believe that, effective April 17, 1947, (a) the housing (aka skirt) was changed from leather to black Panolene plastic and (b) rosettes and spots were added to the housing.

                              Note that, at least at the time, the subject rosettes were different than (i) the Deluxe Buddy Seat rosettes, (ii) the Lock-Tite saddlebag rosettes, and (ii) the accessory rosettes. And, HD referred to the version of the subject seat pictured in the November 1947 Enthusiast as follows: “It is decorated with jewels and plastic ornaments.”

                              As to the subject seat, I have only seen references to plastic rosettes. I haven’t yet seen the original October 11, 1946 Milsco Drawing No. AG071 for the side housing subassembly (Milsco Part No. G071). But, even if leather rosettes were ever specified or used for any version of the subject seat (e.g., any mock-up, prototype, test version, or early production version), it looks like they weren’t used for long.

                              As to the seat pictured on page 687, I believe that the caption is incorrect. The page 687 seat was probably produced after September 1947.

                              Note that the page 687 seat is different than earlier versions of the subject seat (with 2 rivets in the back housing piece; 27 rivets in each side housing piece; and possibly different washers).

                              I can’t find it now, but I have previously seen a factory photo of a version of a Deluxe Solo Saddle (pictured all by itself) that may highlight some of the distinguishing features of earlier versions. I believe that the photo may have been taken in or about June or July 1947.
                              Fletcher Clark Johnston
                              AMCA #282

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