Royalite Seat Skirt

[ryan]

I am in need of a pattern for the police 3 piece Royalite skirt if anyone can help me out please. I need the pattern for doing a seat for a fellow member. I just need the 3 leather cutout patterns for the skirt, not going to have any jewelry nor leather conchos.
Also, can anyone give any information on the seat, like years made, rather it had a natural slicked edge or not.
I am doing this seat bro bono, so the information is not to make money, but to help me, help him.
Thank you in advance for your time.
Ryan

[FCJ]

I am in need of a pattern for the police 3 piece Royalite skirt if anyone can help me out please. I just need the 3 leather cutout patterns for the skirt.

1. I assume that you are referring to the police version of the Deluxe Solo Saddle (DSS). But, are you sure that the skirt was Royalite? What general time period or model year range are you thinking of?
2. Do you need the "leather cutout patterns" for some particular (reproduction process or other) reason? Or, would the plastic cutout patterns also work?
3. Is a "natural slicked edge" the same thing as an open (raw, cobbler, cobbled, sanded, etc.) seam?

[FCJ]

Ryan: I can provide some info (below) and photos if that would be helpful. But, may be easier to send photos via email or facebook.

As to the police version of the Deluxe Solo Saddle (and major changes and versions), I’m not an expert and even experts (e.g., Paquette and Palmer) disagree on some issues.

IMO, the first police version (aka “Deluxe Saddle, Without Spots” in some HD literature) (PN 3181-48; 52008-48) was introduced in or about 1947 and had a leather cover, an open seam, and a Panther Panco (company) Panolene (brand name) product plastic composite skirt.

However, per Palmer (2nd edition; and possibly 3rd edition?): “first Police solo seat, referred to as Deluxe Solo Saddle Police Special, was introduced in 1949.”

IMO, a police version was introduced in 1950 with a US Rubber (company) Royalite (brand name) product ABS type plastic composite cover. But, Milsco may have continued to produce some versions with leather covers for some period of time (e.g., material, conversion, and other production issues; CHP and other department preferences; special orders; etc.).

However, per Palmer: “All 1949-1957 Police Deluxe seats … always had an open seam leather top.”

IMO, a police version was introduced in 1951 with a closed seam. But, Milsco may have continued to produce some versions with closed seams for some period of time (e.g., material, conversion, and other production issues; department preferences; special orders; etc.).

However, per Palmer: “All 1949-1957 Police Deluxe seats have open seams.”

IMO, the first spear style version of the civilian Deluxe Solo Saddle was introduced in 1954 and had a US Rubber Royalite product plastic composite cover, closed seam, and American Biltrite (Panther Panco) Panolene product plastic composite skirt. I believe that the spear style version of the civilian seat was also marketed and used as a police seat.

However, per Palmer: “The last Deluxe solo seat was introduced in 1955” and had a “vinyl (32 oz. Naugahyde) [cover] with light pebble print [and] Royalite rubber skirt.” And, as to the cover of the predecessor rosette style version of the civilian Deluxe Solo Saddle: “In 1953 or 1954 and through 1963, leather was replaced by vinyl (32 oz. Naugahyde) with light pebble print.”

Many people say that police and civilian Deluxe Solo Saddles have Royalite plastic skirts.

Note that there were many other style and production changes and versions (e.g., multiple grains; different trim decorations; etc.).

Please feel free to let me know if you disagree or have any questions. Don’t mind being corrected if I am mistaken or missed anything.

[ryan]

1. I assume that you are referring to the police version of the Deluxe Solo Saddle (DSS). But, are you sure that the skirt was Royalite? What general time period or model year range are you thinking of?
2. Do you need the "leather cutout patterns" for some particular (reproduction process or other) reason? Or, would the plastic cutout patterns also work?
3. Is a "natural slicked edge" the same thing as an open (raw, cobbler, cobbled, sanded, etc.) seam?

I need the 3 piece leather cutout patterns for the skirt. Yes, a natural slicked edge is a finished open edge. I think the skirt pattern is a police dss seat from mid 40s early 50s. Not really for certain if it is a Royalite.
I do know what it looks like, but cannot provide a picture.
Thank you very much!

[FCJ]

I need the 3 piece leather cutout patterns for the skirt.

Ok. Apologies for my confusion. You are still saying that you need the "leather cutout patterns" (not the plastic cutout patterns) for the plastic skirt.

I don't work with leather or know how cutout patterns work, but I would typically assume that, if someone was trying to reproduce the 3-piece plastic skirt, they would need the 3-piece plastic skirt (i.e., not the 3-piece leather skirt) to serve as their "model" or "example" or "pattern." Maybe you believe that the pieces of the leather skirt are the same shape and size as the pieces of the plastic skirt. Or, maybe that doesn't matter.

[FCJ]

In case it's helpful, below is a photo of a MY1950 style police seat. It has a leather cover, an open seam, and a Panolene plastic skirt.

[FCJ]

The MY1951 style police seat had a Royalite plastic cover, an open seam, and a Panolene plastic skirt.

Below is a photo of a MY1953 style police seat. It has a Royalite plastic cover, a closed seam, and a Panolene plastic skirt.

[FCJ]

Just in case you want a photo of something with a leather skirt, below is a photo of what may be a MY1946 or early MY1947 “plain jane” (no jewels) version of Deluxe Solo Saddle (3181-39B) and possibly a predecessor of the police seat. It has a leather cover, an open seam, and a leather skirt.

[ryan]

Fletcher,
Wow, I do not know what to say, but thank you! You sure know your seats. Now the skirts look very similar or may be even the same pattern, but the early one has 6 rivets and the others have 4, so choices, choices, choices.
Since I do not have any of the plastic material, I was just going to use leather. As for cutting the skirts out of leather, there are a few ways to go about it: for one off items I use a round knife and if I get back into doing seats again I would have a clicker die made which is like a cookie cutter. A clicker die could also be used to cut the plastic sheeting.
So when it comes to the seat I am doing, I may as well use the pattern from the skirting that goes with the open seam. A traced pattern made out of cereal box type cardboard will work as well as construction paper.
Do you cut skirting out the plastic sheeting, if so, that would work out as well.
Thank you greatly for taking the time to post the pictures and share all the information with me, I greatly appreciate it!
Ryan

Here is a copy of the gentleman's email for his order: His picture looks just like the 4 rivet skirts

I've attached photos of the solo seat I'm interested in. Like I said, I believe it is a mid-late 40s to early 50s police seat. Nothing fancy, plain black (open seam?) leather top, thick nose seat with a plain 3-piece Royalite skirt. I like the seat better than the later standard police seat that has a different cut skirt with decoration. It's would be going on a 65 FLH I'm rebuilding.

[FCJ]

Happy to help. Lots of guys have helped me.

It sounds like he mainly just likes the plain, simple, clean looks of the true police seat. And, doesn't want the later spear style civilian Deluxe Solo Saddle that was marketed and used as a police seat (and that everyone calls a police seat). For accuracy, if you were using a leather cover, you would typically use an open seam (because covers generally changed to plastic covers before seams changed to closed seams). But, there were exceptions. I believe that they continued to use leather for at least some police seats for some period of time after they changed most seats over to plastic. And, if you are using a leather skirt and he is putting the seat on a 65 and he said "(open seam?)", he may not really care about what is "correct." I don't know what you prefer to do, but you may just want to give him the choice on the seam.

[ryan]

I just told the fellow I was going to run a couple of open seamed veg tanned covers that I already have formed and he asked if I could cover one for him with the three piece skirt. I do not have the plastic to make the skirt out of but have leather. He said he did not mind either way.
A rolled skirt is chrome tanned, non forming, leather that takes a different process to do.
Again, I am covering his seat for free.
I am getting back into leatherwork after a considerable time off, several years. I have to knock the dust off of my equipment somehow.
I use to build leather carriage fine harness, work harness, mc bags, pan seats, belts, kidney belts, chaps and boots among other things. I even get stuck repairing zippers and hemming blue jeans. Lol

Kinda dread running the spot setting machines, but good therapy standing on my artificial leg.lol