Judging Question??

[46EL]

This question is not about Sunday morning Judging. What i'm interested in is who appoints and overseas Judges and i'm not talking about Sundays at AMCA Meets. Who gives them Titles like "Senior Judge"? And how can I contact that person who is in charge of these chosen club members? Thanks

[kval]

This question is not about Sunday morning Judging. What i'm interested in is who appoints and overseas Judges and i'm not talking about Sundays at AMCA Meets. Who gives them Titles like "Senior Judge"? And how can I contact that person who is in charge of these chosen club members? Thanks

46EL
I will try to answer some of your questions,
this judging system was started in 1992, at that time "Field Judges" were grandfathered in. after that members had to "Apprentice judge" until they had learned the procedure and shown some knowledge about the motorcycles they judged. they were then issued a "Field Judges" card. when I was the chief judge, I came up with the "Senior Judge" class, it was intended as a thank you to all the judges who had dedicated themselves to our judging, by going to multiple meets and spending countless amounts of time increasing their personal knowledge about the motorcycles that they specialized in.
the chief judge was responsible for keeping track of all "Senior Judges","Field Judges" and "Apprentice Judges", also to make sure all supplies like judging forms, handle bar tags, trophies, etc were orderd and delivered to the meets, maintain the database and prepare the list of awards at every meet to be included in the meet report for the magazine. also had to answer all letters, emails and phone calls about any questions about judging and try to settle any disputes about questionable judging.
I was "replaced" 2 years ago, but have kept an eye on things, at Davenport this year they appointed a new chief judge, I had a brief conservation with him but I am not sure how much authority he has.

[46EL]

Thanks for your reply Kevin. Instead of beating around the bush I guess i'm just going to say what I have to say. On another Forum about Motorcycles that I do not belong to I just noticed again something that disturbs me greatly. I also mentioned this type of behavior up in the Parking Lot Chatter section last week. I believe this behavior effects everyone who belongs to this Club. Somene offered up for sale on our AMCA website very recently in my opinion a pretty rare and expensive Harley. I have personally for the record have nothing to do with this bike. The next thing I see over on the other Website someone posts a link and a photo of this Motorcycle. One of the people who responded about this bike in my opinion in a negative way has "AMCA SENIOR JUDGE" emblazoned under his identity? I do not know anything about AMCA Judging or Judges. I do know that the work they are assigned to do is usually done on Sunday Mornings at AMCA Events? It it our Clubs policy that these chosen few with Titles our club handed out should roam the internet and bash anything they personally do not like? With the loss of many great club members over the last few years and the fact that none of us are getting any younger, we all should be doing POSITIVE things to bring in new younger members. This type of behavior again, IN MY OPINION does nothing to promote our Club as a positive sanctioned group of people who want to preserve antique motorcycles. It is my opinion bashing a seller or a restorer or even a certain year motorcycle is a slap in the face to anyone who owns an Antique Motorcycle. And that includes anyone who offers and donates their time to promote our Club. The people who promote this club are YOU, the members who pay dues and vending fees, the guy who shows up at a meet a day early and helps puts out garbage cans, the guys who stepped up to the plate when a recent member passed and trudged around in the mud and rain so a scheduled meet could happen. If you feel the need to bash someone or something that is your right of free speech under the U.S. Constitution. Just please don't do it with your Title of "AMCA Senior Judge" under your Indentity please. I personally have been a member of this club for many years and do not appreciate it. Whoever is in charge of Judging should look at this matter and they need to come up with some sort of guidline as far as behavior goes when you are an appointed Judge. Sooner or later someone is going to say the wrong thing to the wrong person and this Club is going to end up in a lawsuit. 46EL

[exeric]

I believe the lawsuit thing has already happened which may have influenced our current judging system. Regardless, I agree with you 46EL. I have learned that casual negetive remarks can be misinterpreted and you have to be very careful where you drop them. Also, common courtesy goes a long way in making life easier.

I know the bike you're referring to and to my untrained eye, it looks beautiful. I know there are people who really know their stuff about that particular year of H-D and for them, it has been a life's mission to explore and learn every nuance, and birthmark on that year. Their knowledge quest has been a benefit for many of us and certainly has uncovered some new H-D lore. I've been doing the same thing for '17-'19 Hendersons so I understand the effort required. However, I think bike bashing makes a bigger comment about the "basher". Constructive criticism is good, but keep the mean stuff to a whisper. . . . Unless you have a really funny comment.

[46EL]

Eric- Thanks for the positive feedback on this issue. Anyone who knows me can tell you I always enjoy a good laugh. But when that laugh costs someone money it isn't funny anymore. And i'm not and I never tried to make myself look like an Angel. I have made many many mistakes in my lifetime and i wish I could take back half of them. Hopefully when you reach your mid 50's you you can see the wrong you have done and try to correct it. Especially when you have hurt another Club Member and it has been pointed out to you. You are not here to drive people away from this Club and Website. If you have that much free time on your hands do something constructive. In this case the person who restored that motorcycle was almost kind of a legend. Maybe say something nice about him in you knew him and his history. Give give him credit for what he did accomplish. If you see something wrong with a motorcycle online and it bothers you the AMCA should not give you the go ahead to bash someone in the name of our club. ESPECIALLY in this case when it is ANOTHER AMCA MEMBER who is trying to sell a motorcycle for whatever reason! That is what your position is NOT about! You are not the ONLINE INTERNET Judge and Jury. You are only someone who on a Sunday Morning should try to help someone who made an effort to restore a motorcycle. Thanks again Eric. 46EL.

[kval]

I believe the lawsuit thing has already happened which may have influenced our current judging system. Regardless, I agree with you 46EL. I have learned that casual negetive remarks can be misinterpreted and you have to be very careful where you drop them. Also, common courtesy goes a long way in making life easier.

I know the bike you're referring to and to my untrained eye, it looks beautiful. I know there are people who really know their stuff about that particular year of H-D and for them, it has been a life's mission to explore and learn every nuance, and birthmark on that year. Their knowledge quest has been a benefit for many of us and certainly has uncovered some new H-D lore. I've been doing the same thing for '17-'19 Hendersons so I understand the effort required. However, I think bike bashing makes a bigger comment about the "basher". Constructive criticism is good, but keep the mean stuff to a whisper. . . . Unless you have a really funny comment.

Eric
the lawsuit thing had not happened, it was just paranoia by some board members. but you are correct about the causual negative comments, they serve no useful purpose.

during my tenure as Chief Judge, I would state at every judges meeting "be careful what you say about someone's motorcycle, you do not know who is listening to your comments. there will be no negative comments made(especially on the judging field.)"
I also told the judges "respect is not something you deserve, it is something you EARN."

[exeric]

I apprenticed with Geoff Skilton at Oley one year. During the judging meeting, one of the judges went off about a bike that was on the field saying it was not worthy of being judged. Kevin Valentine calmly reminded that judge, and everyone else that the bike belonged to an AMCA member and he had the right to have it judged. I have always admiried, and respected Kevin for sticking up for that member.

[46EL]

Kevin- That is an excellent way to approach the whole idea of Judging. What i'm amazed at is the basher with the Negative comments doesn't do it here on this website where the bike is advertised. He goes to another website and does it. All I can imagine is somone reading those comments and saying "yeah, i'm gonna rush right out and get an antique bike, restore it and bring it to that Judge in that AMCA club for his opinion" Very sad, 46EL

[kval]

Kevin- That is an excellent way to approach the whole idea of Judging. What i'm amazed at is the basher with the Negative comments doesn't do it here on this website where the bike is advertised. He goes to another website and does it. All I can imagine is somone reading those comments and saying "yeah, i'm gonna rush right out and get an antique bike, restore it and bring it to that Judge in that AMCA club for his opinion" Very sad, 46EL

46EL
it is a very sad state of affairs, and does nothing to help the AMCA.
unfortunatly I am no longer in a position to correct the problem

Eric
when I applied for a board position(a very long time ago), I did it to be in a position to stand up for every member.

[46EL]

I was having a little chat a few minutes ago with someone who is very educated in legal matters. He said if someone who titled themself as an "Author" on a website he should watch out what he says and to whom he says it to. Not only can it be trouble for him the Administrator and the whole Website and its owner can POSSIBLY be sued in a civil trial. Someone seriously needs to educate themselves as far as liability goes and i'm not just talking about our AMCA website. 46EL

[Lonnie]

The new Chief Judge is Carl Olsen, I believe most of us know him very well. Try contacting him at his shop - contact info at www.carlscyclesupply.com.

[46EL]

I have said enough and stuck my neck out far enough about this matter in the last few weeksand i'm not contacting anyone. It is now time to see just who is paying attention and see if anything is done about this problem. It would be nice if a few other people who cared about this club also took the time to rattle a few cages and not just me. Barry Brown was the smart one here and don't feel sorry for him. He will do just fine. He had enough of toxic people and was smart enough and had enough common sense to just to wash his hands of the situation. He knows that you will never get anywhere arguing with ignorant thick headed people. Me, like an idiot I always feel the need to fight with these guys who have nothing better to do than bash their fellow club members. I am to the point where I am also about to leave. And when I do I will leave this club and not just this website. After 25 years I do not see much of a reason to stay in this organization. if i want to go to Oley or Rhinebeck I will do so on Friday as a spectator and nothing more than that. Lately in the last few years this club has taken a few turns that I do not understand and no longer want any part of. 46EL

[rwm]

wouldn't be quicker just to say you don't like chris.

[Chris Haynes]

I am a blunt and to the point person. Short and to the subject at hand. If you take that as bashing I can't help it. I also help with information whenever I can. I show pictures (as one is worth a thousand words). I freely E mail pictures to folks who need help or ask for a picture of a certain model or part. Helping I what I try to do. If I point out things I see wrong with a machine it is not bashing. Simply point out what is wrong. The member that quit this forum did so on his own. I was blunt and to the point about my feelings about him trying to profiteer by gouging the members of this forum. Asking a fortune for a COPY, not from the original negative, of a photo is just plain wrong.
PS I did not assign the title of Author to my avatar at CAIMAG. Buzz Walneck did. I had listed myself as Curmudgeon.
Don't worry about my feelings as I have very thick shin.

[exeric]

Chris, I think 46EL was talking about someone else. I think you do help a lot of people and the fact that you share your incredible photo collection with everyone is proof of that. Besides, how could anyone ever say a sweetheart like you could be ornery.