Double clincher rims for pre 1908

[silentgreyfello]

My supply of double clincher rims is starting to dwindle I talked to McRoberts, but it doesn't sound like there is enough quantities for them to make a run of them. I am considering having a run made here locally if there is any interest out there? Unless someone has some they want to sell?

[exeric]

About what year did the double clincher rim go away, and was it tire technology that replaced it with the standard clincher rim? Also, were they in all of the common sizes of the day ?

[silentgreyfello]

I believe the conversion to clinchers took place for the 1909 models based only on looking at original bikes, but I don't know this to be a hard fact. The clinchers are much easier to mount (at least with the tires currently available).

I have seen the double clinchers for 26" and 28" tires. I measured the four that I have and all are 23-1/2 Dia x 1-3/4 wide (for 28"). Standard clincher is 24" dia for 28" tire.

[shawcycle]

Another source for 28 inch clinchers is:

Allen Reinbrecht
Chandler IN
(812)925-6247

Not sure if he is internect connected. Info is several years old.

John Hasty

[Earl]

I believe the conversion to clinchers took place for the 1909 models based only on looking at original bikes, but I don't know this to be a hard fact. The clinchers are much easier to mount (at least with the tires currently available).

I have seen the double clinchers for 26" and 28" tires. I measured the four that I have and all are 23-1/2 Dia x 1-3/4 wide (for 28"). Standard clincher is 24" dia for 28" tire.

Here's some info from copies of Harley-Davidson sales brochures:

1905/1906
"Tires and Wheels. 2-1/4 inch G & J detachable motor cycle tires are used, and the wheels are built up with steel rims and extra heavy motor cycle spokes."

1907
"The wheels are standard 28-inch, 1907 type with double clincher steel rims. They take 2-1/2 inch G & J or Goodrich detachable motorcycle tires. The spokes are extra heavy, making the best possible wheel equipment for the purpose."

1908
"Wheels - The wheels are built up with single or double clinch steel rims, extra heavy spokes, and with Thor, New Departure, or Morrow hubs.

Tires - 28 x 2-1/2 inch tires are used exclusively, and the choice of Empire single clinch wrapped tread, Pennsylvania or Goodrich single clinch moulded, or G & J double clinch flat tread is offered."

1909
"Our wheels are the most carefully constructed throughout, having extra heavy spokes and steel rims of either the single or double clincher type"

That's just info from one manufacturer. It would be very interesting to go though early Cycle & Auto Trade Journal ads and concentrate on the single vs double clincher rims.

Sounds like a good winter project.

[silentgreyfello]

Thanks for the input, Rick. I have some old magazines... I'll have to look when I find some time! I didn't realize that HD offered the double clinchers as late as 1909.

I don't know if there are other sources of tires, but the coker's have to be cut with a utility knife to make them fit on the double clincher. I have ridden with them, but it makes me very nervous that it will wad up around the front fork as I sail over the top. If anyone has suggestions regarding this (other than brain swap), let me know!

[Earl]

Thanks for the input, Rick. I have some old magazines... I'll have to look when I find some time! I didn't realize that HD offered the double clinchers as late as 1909.

Last night I looked in my copy of Harley's 1910 parts book, and they offered both single and double clinch rims for all of their models.

And today at lunch I'm looking in the "Parts Listings for Harley-Davidson Motorcycles, 1909-1932". This is the orange covered book that Harley came out with in 1993. It's a collection of various years parts books. Everybody has one of these at work, right?

Anyway, go to the second section, the parts book for 1910 to 1917 inclusive.
Look at page 66.

They list a part number for a tire rim for single clinch, 28 inch models for the years 1909 to 1912.

They list a part number for a tire rim for single clinch, 26 inch models for the years 1909 to 1911.

And they list a part number for a tire rim for double clinch, 26 inch models for the years 1909 to 1911.

Strangely missing is a tire rim for a double clinch, 28 inch wheel.
I never noticed that before. Looks like they missed a part in their book.

But they do have listings for belt rims for both 26 and 28 inch models, for use with both single and double clinch rims.

So it looks like Harley offered double clinch rims on their motorcycles through Model year 1911.

[silentgreyfello]

Thanks again, Rick. I have never seen a HD (or pix) later than '08 with double clinchers, but they must have existed. I wonder why they would have offered both? Perhaps the supply of the new single clinchers wasn't big enough or customers wanted the old stand-by?

[Earl]

Another thing to consider might be the roads and driving conditions that people had to encounter. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that double clinchers are much harder to put on than single clinchers. Well, if they're harder to put on, they would be more inclined to stay on, especially if a rider had to navigate the unpaved, rutted pathways we've all seen in early pictures.

[silentgreyfello]

Rick, I mentioned the single clincher tires are tought to mount on the double clincher rims because they weren't designed for them. However, I wanted to use double clincher rims on a resto, but the only tires that I am aware of are the single clincher tires from coker.

[Ken Lee]

Please forgive me for being ignorant (I'm sure I'm not alone) but what is the difference between single and double clincher rims / tyres ??? some of my bikes use beeded edge , as we call em over the pond and all are what I know as normal single rims , even my 1904 bike which is English .
Is double clincher an American thing ?? pity Coker have a manopoly on 'our' tyre sizes , does any one know of another manufacturer of 28 x 2-1/2 ?? best of luck with your search anyway , Ken

[talbot-2]

My supply of double clincher rims is starting to dwindle I talked to McRoberts, but it doesn't sound like there is enough quantities for them to make a run of them. I am considering having a run made here locally if there is any interest out there? Unless someone has some they want to sell?

What tires do you use for "double clincher" rims? What is available?

[exeric]

That's a good question Talbot-2. I looked at the a G&J advertisement in the 1909 Motorcycle Illustrated and it appears that you have to use a double clicher tire with a double clincher rim. It doesn't look like a standard clincher tire would work on a double clincher rim.

Ken Lee, looking at a cross section of a double clincher rim, it looks like a rim inside a rim. Logically, the flaps of the tire tucked in between the 2 rims. I have to assume that they were more expensive in their day but you still had to contend with inconsistant rubber compounds so I wonder if the extra price was really worth it.

[talbot-2]

That's a good question Talbot-2. I looked at the a G&J advertisement in the 1909 Motorcycle Illustrated and it appears that you have to use a double clicher tire with a double clincher rim. It doesn't look like a standard clincher tire would work on a double clincher rim.

Ken Lee, looking at a cross section of a double clincher rim, it looks like a rim inside a rim. Logically, the flaps of the tire tucked in between the 2 rims. I have to assume that they were more expensive in their day but you still had to contend with inconsistant rubber compounds so I wonder if the extra price was really worth it.

Back in 1968 I mounted two "28 X 2" tires made by the U.S. Rubber Co. for Houghton Sulky Co. of Marion, Ohio, on a 1908 vintage cycle with double clincher rims. They still look good today, but they're cracked and are good for display purposes only. The cycle should have "28 X 2 1/2" tires. They weren't available in '68 and as far as I know, there're still not available now. I've been unsuccessful in locating anything to replace the 42 year old "28 X 2's". If anyone has any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate it. Coker tells me that there is not a big enough demand for them to have the "28 X 2 1/2" double clincher tires reproduced. I've also been advised that Coker's clincher style "28 X 2 1/2" tires should not be put on the double clincher rims because the bead will not stay in the rim. They too would should be for display only and certainly not for any riding.

Glad you were able to pull up the "Motorcycle Illustrated" magazines on Google. There are also other years to be found as well. The first and second halves of 1909, first half of 1910, and the first half of 1917.

[silentgreyfello]

It doesn't look like a standard clincher tire would work on a double clincher rim.

Eric, I have made it work several times. You have to take a utility knife and carve some of the inner rubber off of the bead on the clincher tire. The single clincher tires then work just fine on a double clincher rim. Now, would I ride the bike 40 MPH? NO! 20 MPH tops.