Oil Pump check valve

[T. Cotten]

...because an oil level into the crankcase up to the sprocket shaft level is too much and dangerous
to start the motor…
George

No it ain't, George!

Sure it can be messy, or foul plugs,

But horror stories of the rear jug lifted off the deck usually included extraneous factors, like somebody's 'better idea' seal, etc.,..

...and don't forget a loose nut on the handlebars.

....Cotten

[Schorsch]

Hi T.Cotten,
yes, I agree , an empty oil tank during the "no riding season" should be the easier solution,
because an oil level into the crankcase up to the sprocket shaft level is too much and dangerous
to start the motor…
George

[T. Cotten]

Hi T.Cotten,
on the other hand, to start the motor with the crankcase full of oil, is a really bad action, it could destroy the motor!
Normally you have to drain the crankcase prior to start the motor. But that drain plug is so bad placed between the
frame and the crankcase...
George

If you drain the tank into a jug, George,..

There won't be enough oil to fill the cases.

....Cotten
PS: The only way cases can fill to a dangerous level is when a positive seal has been installed upon the sprocket shaft, usually to accomodate a belt.
Otherwise, the oil can fill no higher than the sprocket shaft, as the 'slinger' is an escape to the primary.

[Schorsch]

Hi T.Cotten,
on the other hand, to start the motor with the crankcase full of oil, is a really bad action, it could destroy the motor!
Normally you have to drain the crankcase prior to start the motor. But that drain plug is so bad placed between the
frame and the crankcase...
George

[T. Cotten]

Thank you all for the discussion, decided to start the Motor every month during the time of no riding Season... George

Please beware, George,..

Motors are designed to operate under load; Please don't start it unless you're gonna ride it.

Whether idling, or worse yet, "rapped" as if to warm it up, wear is much worse upon the assembly than 'full-tilt' high-speed highway cruising.

If you set the jug o' oil on the footboard, you won't forget it.

....Cotten

[Schorsch]

Thank you all for the discussion, decided to start the Motor every month during the time of no riding Season... George

[lrcormier]

Yes it will work, I run this on my WR so part of my morning start up is turn on the gas and oil valve for the day. Then at night when done riding gas and oil are turned off. It sits for weeks or months and no issue.

Thanks for your reply KNUCK. I'm still in the process of building (I say building because I got it in pieces) and hope to have it running by next spring. I suppose I could be one of the few lucky ones that their bike doesn't sump but not counting on it. If it sumps then a ball valve will be my solution and have found many possible candidates but not sure what size I'll need. Do you know what size you have or what size hose you used. My build is a 52 PAN and will be mostly stock.

[jim d]

Tom when I clicked onto the live link that you put up I also got the 403 error message . But if you go to the bottom of that page you can click on the homepage and it will take you there and then search oil valve shutoff. Thanks for putting it up.

[KNUCK]

I know it might look ugly, but could installing a small shut off valve in the oil supply line work? The danger would be if you forgot to turn it on prior to starting your bike, but has anyone tried this?

Yes it will work, I run this on my WR so part of my morning start up is turn on the gas and oil valve for the day. Then at night when done riding gas and oil are turned off. It sits for weeks or months and no issue.

[T. Cotten]

You are right, Craig!

Knucks had their "tins" too, plus the 'Knuckles' themselves, of course...

I'm not on a 'Coast', but just a couple of hours Northeast of you.

Come to think of it, I can't remember my locals ever called anything "tins". But they had other choice words for them!

....Cotten
PS: Locals calling fenders "tins" was definitely post-sleazyriders era.

PPS: While we are on sumping,..
Let me repeat my warning to folks with a sprocket shaft seal, instead of the OEM "slinger": Your cases can fill ALL the way up!

[41craig]

Aren't "tins" a Panhead thing, Craig?

The aluminum pumps were a '68 and later thing, (according to my Parts Book anyway).

Leaky rockers, both Knuck and Pan, often start with a drainage issue.

It wouldn't have to do with pressure, but volume: How much can you get rid of..

...Cotten
PS: Lets see if this works, Jim!
http://www.feked.com/anti-wet-sump-o...gnition-system
Uh oh, evil 404 error!
I guess we won't know the open valve bore...

That makes perfect sense Cotten. Growing up in St. Charles, Mo. ( just west on I-70 from St. Louis Co. ) we called the Knuckle rocker arm covers "tins". Although we did call Panhead motors "Tin Pans". And since the mid 1960's we ( and I still do ) call Sissy Bars, Chicken Bars. This was before Chopper Magazines, so we didn't hear or see what things were called on the East or West Coasts.
Craig

[T. Cotten]

Cotten; I was always under the assumption that some of the aluminum oil pumps produce more oil pressure and thereby cause oil leaking out of the tins covering the rocker arms. Plus ( on a personal note ) they look like crap on a Knuckle. Not as mechanical looking as the original.
Craig

Aren't "tins" a Panhead thing, Craig?

The aluminum pumps were a '68 and later thing, (according to my Parts Book anyway).

Leaky rockers, both Knuck and Pan, often start with a drainage issue.

It wouldn't have to do with pressure, but volume: How much can you get rid of..

...Cotten
PS: Lets see if this works, Jim!
http://www.feked.com/anti-wet-sump-o...gnition-system
Uh oh, evil 404 error!
I guess we won't know the open valve bore...

[41craig]

Cotten; I was always under the assumption that some of the aluminum oil pumps produce more oil pressure and thereby cause oil leaking out of the tins covering the rocker arms. Plus ( on a personal note ) they look like crap on a Knuckle. Not as mechanical looking as the original.
Craig

[jim d]

The Feked Classic Bikes Parts company from the UK markets a anti wet sump oil tap valve. It is available in three different versions. One is just the plain shutoff. The other two have a switch built in to the shutoff valve. One is used for the magneto ignition system. The other is used for a battery and coil ignition system. You can't start the bike until you turn the oil tap on. All of them are explained and pictured on there website. [URL="http://www.feked.com/anti-wet-sump-oil-pipe-tap-with-switch-magneto-or-coil-ignition-system"]

I wasn't sure how to make the web address a hot link so if someone can please do. Thanks

[T. Cotten]

Several years ago I tried the burnishing tool without much luck. I ordered 100 Viton balls with I believe a durometer rating of 60.
Viton would handle the temps as well as having a high resistance oil and gas. If the pump seat wasn't to bad the balls would conform to the irregularities and eliminate the sumping problem.

I used them in three of my bikes and gave the rest away with about a 75% success rate with my bikes and the feedback I received.

I tried teflon balls first, RCamp!

But they didn't pass the bubble-test, even on a dressed seat. Various attempts at dressers attached.
(Not only is it hard to imagine a rubber or plastic ball lasting as long as hardened steel, they can't be easily retrieved with a magnet, and may very well embed with abrasive particles.)

Then I dreamt up a burnisher, for re-forming the seat as smooth as possible.
When a Knuck came back for Springtime service after a Chicago winter with an absolutely full tank, I thought I struck gold.
(Aluminum pumps reassured me it was salvation.)

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they had better than 75% success rate at alleviating sumping, but not always eliminating it. (Success rarely gets feedback; they forget about it.)
It was the few failures that forced me to disavow the practice.

Not only did piloting off of the threads in the castings prove the seat was often not concentric to them, but some 'chilled' Flatty cast iron bodies proved too hard and brittle, damaging both burnisher and pump.
So I sucked up my losses, and gave up.

The piloting problem is why I now suggest the 'flat-grind' repair, as it doesn't need to be perfectly concentric with the seat. Not only does that give the best results when bubble-tested, it seems most likely there was no machined seat to begin with.

....Cotten