'03 Warwick

[c.o.]

I have an old original photograph (if I can find it) of a gentleman who is the grandfather of a friend. On the back of it is written that he married a girl from Syracuse and moved to Aurora Illinois where he opened a sheet metal shop. He made the gas tanks, etc for the first Indians. Being close to the Aurora Automatic Machinery Company who supplied engines for the early Indians I wonder if he also made sheet metal parts for Thor and other early motorcycles. Perhaps it was Indian who copied other early motorcycles.

Very interesting Tom....... I would be curious to hear more about this fellow. As far as Indian being the copy-cat.......I personally doubt it. It was a situation of Oscar Hedstrom having an idea and the Indian company not having the tooling to produce the end result. But as HC has already said, some of the clones such as the Warwick are probably much more rare than the Indian itself.

[c.o.]

I can envision a real cool story involving the original Indian design and various copycats in this pioneer era. I've been dropping bits and pieces into a dedicated file about this.

So then we don't know what happened to the existing Warwick motorcycle? Anyone know who owns it now?

In my files I found a 1903 Warwick ad. Get this: it was called the "Warwick Cycle and Automobile Co." which suggests they may have been trying to build and sell cars too. If true, that might help explain their quick demise. Over extending spelled doom to many early concerns, a casebook example being the Milwaukee Merkel.

Pennington's gasoline-powered 2-wheeler may have been conceived and possibly built as early as 1891. It will be interesting to put him up against other pioneer claims to see what kind of "first" Pennington really was and right here in America too!

I look forward to seeing something in print someday. I too am wondering where the Warwick ended up. It would be nice to see some decent pictures of one. As far as an early demise, too many irons in the fire is a likely reason. It seems as though more than a few outfits took a major gamble, just to see if an idea would "stick".

Now if you can prove that Pennington was cooking around on a motorsickle as early as 1891, then I guess history as far as American motorcycling is concerned will change for sure!

[Tom Wilcock]

I have an old original photograph (if I can find it) of a gentleman who is the grandfather of a friend. On the back of it is written that he married a girl from Syracuse and moved to Aurora Illinois where he opened a sheet metal shop. He made the gas tanks, etc for the first Indians. Being close to the Aurora Automatic Machinery Company who supplied engines for the early Indians I wonder if he also made sheet metal parts for Thor and other early motorcycles. Perhaps it was Indian who copied other early motorcycles.

[HarleyCreation]

I can envision a real cool story involving the original Indian design and various copycats in this pioneer era. I've been dropping bits and pieces into a dedicated file about this.

So then we don't know what happened to the existing Warwick motorcycle? Anyone know who owns it now?

In my files I found a 1903 Warwick ad. Get this: it was called the "Warwick Cycle and Automobile Co." which suggests they may have been trying to build and sell cars too. If true, that might help explain their quick demise. Over extending spelled doom to many early concerns, a casebook example being the Milwaukee Merkel.

Pennington's gasoline-powered 2-wheeler may have been conceived and possibly built as early as 1891. It will be interesting to put him up against other pioneer claims to see what kind of "first" Pennington really was and right here in America too!

[c.o.]

Cool! I'll look forward to reading the Pennington article!

I was hoping to catch up to Pete at the Swapmeet on the West Coast this weekend, but the place was so darn busy that I only ran into a few people that I knew and he wasn't one of them! I just have a hunch that he may have some insight. I guess let further digging commence. It sure would be a good story to put together. It's too bad this question didn't occur to any of us earlier. I searched the archives on the forum and it appears that Andy Anderson passed on about three years ago. He would have been the man to ask.

[HarleyCreation]

Yes, I am working on a Pennington story. If you didn't know it actually happened, you'd swear it must be a work of art. But like the old saying goes, truth is stranger than fiction. Pennington is a perfect example of that.

No matter how I try to figure Pennington out, there is something about him that remains a cipher. Almost like he was operating on a different plane of existence or something. My hunch is that the Wizard character in the Wizard of Oz was in part based upon him. Although largely reviled and scorned today as a fraud, he had great influence on motorcycling in the USA and in England too. He appears to be the one who first popularized the word "motor-cycle" which has stuck to present day.

Back to Warwick:

Do we know for sure it only existed in 1903?

Two ways to look at it:

1) Like other real early firms, Warwick just couldn't make it financially and was gone in a season or two. Some firms never made a single bike, only nice illustrated ads with lots of empty promises.

2) Did Indian have something to do with the Warwick's demise? Threats? Bought them out? Or no connection at all? But being right there in the same town and being a copy, you gotta wonder...

It's probably all there in the old Springfield newspapers or in early mc mags, either the whole story or in bits and pieces, if we could find it.

[23JDCA 808]

It is possible to initial investigation using Google. Many newspapers have images of old issues posted on the internet, and the contents have been 'digitized' to allow some searches. These digitizations have not been proofed though, so misspellings are common. ...bill

[c.o.]

I was also wondering if there was a relation between Warwick and Indian. It seems to me that very early on Indian seemed open to acquiring an income any way they could. One wouldn't think that Thor would have been able to build a look alike if that wasn't the case. Now how is Warwick linked? Did they blatantly copy? Or did they build a machine with Indian's blessing? Did Indian or Thor supply the motor or did Warwick build it themselves? Hmmm......it's looking like the questions are plentiful. I think it would be a wonderful story to piece together, but it does seem like it could be a long-time daunting task. With only us participating in the thread it does seem so far that we are the only ones interested in figuring any of this out. It's too bad that a few of the more knowledgeable early enthusiasts aren't interested in getting on a computer and sharing their knowledge. Maybe if Pete reads this he can comment on the Warwick that is pictured with Andy Anderson.

Oh, and an article on Pennington would be just fine. Am I to assume that your working on something?

[HarleyCreation]

When you think of it, the Warwick (1903) is probably more rare than a 1903 Indian. Somehow there must be a connection between the 1890s Warwick bicycle and the later motorcycle. It was very common for firm to go belly up and then come back for another try. The BIG question remains, however, of a connection between the Warwick people and the Indian people. Was there one? Or was it a blatant rip off copy? Sort of like the Milwaukee Comet was a take-off from the Harley and the Harley of the Merkel, but perhaps even closer, possibly a clone bike. Was it?

Pennington does deserve a movie. In the meantime, however, will a story do? One that sets the scene for everything that came later, name names, etc. Although "The Motor Cycle" not a commercial success, somehow Pennington got the motorcycle concept tuned to perfection already in the 1890s. How he managed that is a mystery, but he seemed to do that with everything he touched, almost like he had a window into the future and while put down and disgraced, his influence on other guys is amazing!

[c.o.]

The question remains what happened after the firm went backrupt in 1898. How did it get back on its feet and what happened after 1898? And what was its connection with Indian? Cool little story as at least one of these Warwick motorcycles has survived.[/QUOTE]

Smells like the makin's of a book.....hint.....hint.......or possibly an article. It could include all the clones as well.


Pretty interesting stuff. I think now I may develop a habit of searching various newspaper archives. I still would be interested to know where that Warwick machine is today. Some better pictures would be nice. Oh, and Pennington was a character indeed. Somebody should make a movie about his exploits!

[HarleyCreation]

Pretty interesting stuff! One can only imagine the excitement surrounding the the potential new era of "two-wheeled, gas powered transportation". I imagine there was a lot of speculation early on regarding who would survive and from that date on there were obviously plenty of companies that took a run at motorcycles....

In fact, a motorcycle was present at the 1895 N.Y. Bicycle Show. Not just a motorcycle, but: "The Motor Cycle" invented by Pennington and that's why I'm back there reliving the event. Everybody else in 1895 was going crazy over bicycles as the latest up-to-date high tech invention, but Pennington was ahead of them all with his outrageous "electro-vapor" powered device that he claimed would do nearly a mile-a-minute.

Pennington deserves a lot more credit in the history books in spite of his flawed career. A great story and no mistake!

[HarleyCreation]

More Warwick

This earlier (1895) Warwick Cycle Co. was based in Springfield, Mass. Check this out:

WILL BICYCLES BE CHEAPER?;
A Springfield Manufacturer Makes a Cut Which Other Makers Do Not Like.

New York Times
May 28, 1893, Wednesday
Page 3, 412 words

Dealers In bicycles, and riders thereof, throughout the city are discussing with interest the outlook for cheaper bicycles of first-class manufacture. Last Thursday the Warwick Cycle Company of Springfield, Mass., announced that hereafter its highgrade bicycles of the 1893 stamp, which have previously sold for $150, would be sold for $85, and their 1892 machines for $65. [END OF FIRST PARAGRAPH]

Full article here:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...639C94629ED7CF

Another article says that the Warwick Cycle Co. began in 1888 and ran into problems in 1898. At least the name came back for another try with motorcycles. This is a good little story with names and other details, but NYT won't let me copy and paste it from the pdf. You can find it here:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...649C94699ED7CF

The question remains what happened after the firm went backrupt in 1898. How did it get back on its feet and what happened after 1898? And what was its connection with Indian? Cool little story as at least one of these Warwick motorcycles has survived.

[c.o.]

Pretty interesting stuff! One can only imagine the excitement surrounding the the potential new era of "two-wheeled, gas powered transportation". I imagine there was a lot of speculation early on regarding who would survive and from that date on there were obviously plenty of companies that took a run at motorcycles. I guess we all know how that turned out. It's just an assumption on my part, but I would have to agree that the Warwick Co. mentioned at the Madison Square Garden show was like the same firm that produced the Indian clone.

[HarleyCreation]

At the January 1895 New York City "National Cycle Show" at madison square garden the Warwick Cycle Company had a space. Doesn't give a city for the Warwick Co. in this article, but it seems likely that it is the same firm later connected with the Warwick motorcycle of 1903.

Several other names listed that were later connected with the early motorcycle industry: Light, Pope, Keating, Waltham, Sager, etc.

[HarleyCreation]

Somewhere I have a Warwick motorcycle ad. I'll have to dig it out.