'03 Warwick

[c.o.]

O.K. I just may be logging all this for my own benefit (of which I don't know what...) but here's a blip from the Jan 21st, 1903 issue of "The Horseless Age".

[c.o.]

A couple of years later and an ad surfaces!!!!!!



I know that Andy Anderson's bike is at Barbers but it must still be in storage as I've not heard of it surfacing yet.

[BPK!!]

Brian, Good thing you asked because it's so cold here and the wood pile is low so we are planning on burning all my literature. I'll bring you as good a copy as possible to Oley. It's difficult to copy in a bound volume but I'll do my best. Of course you could just buy my literature collection and then we could afford firewood! Cheers, Barry

Thanks Barry-appreciate the copy! See ya@ Oley!
PS: I Priority Mailed firewood-you'll see it by springtime!!

[aka HAWG]

if that all it takes barry I will gladly trade a load of fire wood for the magazine collection - lol

aka hawg

Brian, Good thing you asked because it's so cold here and the wood pile is low so we are planning on burning all my literature. I'll bring you as good a copy as possible to Oley. It's difficult to copy in a bound volume but I'll do my best. Of course you could just buy my literature collection and then we could afford firewood! Cheers, Barry

[BPK!!]

Keating Motorcycle

Hey Barry,

How about tearing that page out for me, thats the only left side view I've ever seen of a Keating!! Seriously, do you have a duplicate issue? Or, not, I'd settle for a good copy! greatly appreciate it--BPK!!
PS: Refering to the Keating and Harley-Davidson patent(s) infringement, my understanding is, the first three patents on the Harley-Davidson patent decal were/are Keatings patents!! And Harley had to pay Keating after the lawsuit to be able to use and post them--BPK!!

[HarleyCreation]

That's an informative page out of Motor Cycling. Notice for the Steffey it says "water-cooled pattern." I don't think I've seen that before. I rather like the Stahl. Probably because it looks more like a modern bike. Not that there is anything wrong with the Keating or the Royal, which I believe was Hafelfinger's design.

Thanks for posting this.

taken from volume 1 of the English magazine "Motorcycling" 1902

Check out the unusual specs on this early Keating.

[HarleyCreation]

Hello All,
Just to add a little information that I had researched through the years.. Indian(Hedstrom+Hendee) had rented or leased/borrowed the tool room of the Keating Wheel Company, Middletown, Ct. to build thier first motorcycle, circa 1901.. It was a copy of the previously manufactured 1901 Keating model, other than the camelback fuel tank. My feelings, Keating was first, Hedstrom/Hendee copied Keating. Keating built motorcycles in 1902 as well, and ended production that same year.. Indian moved up to Springfield, Ma in 1902+-.
Its been a few years since I have touched on this subject, so it can be a little fuzzy-BPK!!!
To view a 1902 Keating-
http://keatingwheelcompany.com/

Any information pertaining to the Keating Wheel Company would be greatly appreciated!

You point out an interesting connection between the Keating shop and the Indian prototype work.

In the "At the Creation" book (link below) an early connection between Keating and Harley-Davidson is explored when the boys "borrowed" some of Keating's patented advancements and used them as their own. This led to a threat of a lawsuit and a licensing arrangement between Keating and H-D. Keating must have been a smart guy.

[HarleyCreation]

Are we talking about the 1906+ H-D sidecar lug or something else?

Yes, Merkel does come to mind. In 1903 Merkel put out a catalog offering frame parts and everything else to the trade. Did the boys get some of their very early stuff there? We KNOW they got their basic loop-frame chassis layout from Merkel, altho they never admitted it. But did they have some kind of early business relationship too? No evidence of that yet. OTOH, Milwaukee was full of small job shops where you could get any sort of machine, casting, or forged item expertly done.

[c.o.]

That's food for thought fellas. It's always nice to have that other perspective! I'm curious too Chris.......were you referring to Merkel?

[Earl]

Have you ever taken a look at the frame neck casting on the early H-D's? Notice that extra boss that isn't doing anything? It was doing something when that neck was on another motorcycle made in Milwaukee at this time. The boys just bought parts for the early bikes as they didn't have the facilities to make everything.

Hi Chris,

Do you have a picture of a specific motorcycle make, model and year, that has the same or similar neck casting? I've been looking for that evidence for a long time and haven't come across it yet.

Your thoughts are in line with my thinking. When the boys first started out, why would they take the time and effort to have to make something, if they could just go out and buy it? That applies to frame components. I think they would only turn to producing their own parts if they found a way to producing the part cheaper, when they needed something stronger than the market offerred, or had to make something because they couldn't find it, or get it made anywhere else.

[Chris Haynes]

[QUOTE=BPK!!;73919]""I don't think there was much honor among the early manufacturers as a lot of them seemed to regularily rip each other off! So nothing would surprise me if evidence surfaced""

Have you ever taken a look at the frame neck casting on the early H-D's? Notice that extra boss that isn't doing anything? It was doing something when that neck was on another motorcycle made in Milwaukee at this time. The boys just bought parts for the early bikes as they didn't have the facilities to make everything.

[BPK!!]

Warwick

""I don't think there was much honor among the early manufacturers as a lot of them seemed to regularily rip each other off! So nothing would surprise me if evidence surfaced""

Hey Cory-I believe you hit the nail on the head!! Not only thieve's, but from what I've read poor business practices to boot! BPK!!