Cyclone production numbers

[HarleyCreation]

I checked this am, the issue was February, 1970. Beardsley is gone, but I'm hoping someone knows an heir or associate who may know something.

My Grandfather was the draftsman for the original Cyclone effort. Emmett Moore's 1961 article references this, and also notes that he was working with R.L. Lyon at the time on the race to street bike conversion. Post war he returned to join Andrew Strand as an officer in Strand Manufacturing. Beardsley's letter says he was referred by Lyon.

Regarding that particular bike, there is a nice photo early in this thread showing Strand and DeLadi. I have spoken with DeLadi's daughter and son. The son was in his 20's during that work at Egeberg's shop and he oft hung out there with his Dad. That job took 3 years and cost $22,000 per his recollection way back then.

About the sled, we knew nothing of it until digging thru old attic boxes after my grandparents both passed. The sled photos were mixed in with motorcycle photos and was a very nice surprise. No idea what ever happened to it. He had street Cyclones too, but I don't know if the engine came from a bike or inventory.

That's really good interesting information. Sounds like you've got some real nice inside information because of your grandfather's connections both early and later with Lyon. Can you tells us your grandfather's name?

Do you mean that DeLadi in the Cyclone race-to-road conversion bike photo worked at Egeberg's shop too? What was DeLadi's connection? That was some pricey project! That restoration would make a good story, if anyone remembers it.

Do you know how long your grandfather rode the Cyclone on the street? If my memory is correct, the Cyclone dealer there was on University Avenue in St. Paul. Have you ever gone down there to see if the building still exists?

[HarleyCreation]

I have an original race program from the Twin City Motordrome for the Sunday June 28th, 1914. Racer #4, J. A. McNeil raced with a Cyclone. There were 6 Excelsiors and 2 Indians also scheduled to race. I also have an original program from the Stadium Speedway Co. Inc. in Omaha Neb. for Sat. Sept. 26, 1914. Dave Kinnie is listed among the racers but it does not indicate the make of machines raced. I assume he was on his Cyclone. I have no record of the race results from either race. Tom Wilcock, AMCA # 381

Those race results would be easy to locate in early Twin Cities newspapers.

I remember reading one article about the Mpls-St. Paul motordrome, I think in 1915. The local clergy was outraged and protesting the extreme noise emanating from the speed bowl and were trying to shut it down. I wonder how long it lasted?

[Tom Wilcock]

Cyclone production numbers

I have an original race program from the Twin City Motordrome for the Sunday June 28th, 1914. Racer #4, J. A. McNeil raced with a Cyclone. There were 6 Excelsiors and 2 Indians also scheduled to race. I also have an original program from the Stadium Speedway Co. Inc. in Omaha Neb. for Sat. Sept. 26, 1914. Dave Kinnie is listed among the racers but it does not indicate the make of machines raced. I assume he was on his Cyclone. I have no record of the race results from either race. Tom Wilcock, AMCA # 381

[SMS]

SMS,

By chance do any of the other photos have cyclones in them?
If so would you consider posting them.

I do have some print photos filed away of road version Cyclones. I'll consider posting, deciding what I'll do with these someday as we try to properly document some of the history. Thanks to all for your ongoing interest in these elusive machines!

[talbot-2]

Research in Indy.

You give up too easy!!
I went to the Indianapolis assessor's office last week to track the owners of that address in 1915. Records were moved to the State files last year, and are unsorted. A guy at the State archives has found as early as 1950 for me so far. Dead end maybe, but I'm off to the library soon to keep digging.

Go to the Indiana State Library, Genealogy Section, 2nd floor, at 315 W. Ohio Street. The library has Indianapolis City Directories on microfilm. Once you have the address and the corresponding residents surname in 1915, go to the alpha section of the directory for more information (???). You can also search each successive and preceeding year directories for the resident and/or address. With that information in hand, go to the first floor of the library and the computer area and do computer search on "Ancestry.com" in the U.S. Census data bases. Look up the resident's name in the 1910, 1920, 1930, U. S. Census. You may find some interesting information in your search. This may be a dead end too. But, then again, you have learned something doing your research.

[Chuck#1848]

About the sled, we knew nothing of it until digging thru old attic boxes after my grandparents both passed. The sled photos were mixed in with motorcycle photos and was a very nice surprise. No idea what ever happened to it. He had street Cyclones too, but I don't know if the engine came from a bike or inventory.

SMS,

By chance do any of the other photos have cyclones in them?
If so would you consider posting them.

[SMS]

Never mind. I just looked at that address on Google Earth and there is a park there now.

You give up too easy!!
I went to the Indianapolis assessor's office last week to track the owners of that address in 1915. Records were moved to the State files last year, and are unsorted. A guy at the State archives has found as early as 1950 for me so far. Dead end maybe, but I'm off to the library soon to keep digging.

[SMS]

I don't have that issue.

Unless you can track Mr. Beardsley down, the published story is probably the best you can hope for. Finding original notes to either story would be a great tho.

Can you tell us the story of your grandfather. How did he come to get that Cyclone motor? Did he originally have the entire bike? Did he build that motor sled? What became of it? How did Beardsley come to contact him? Do you know if it was race motor or a road model?

I checked this am, the issue was February, 1970. Beardsley is gone, but I'm hoping someone knows an heir or associate who may know something.

My Grandfather was the draftsman for the original Cyclone effort. Emmett Moore's 1961 article references this, and also notes that he was working with R.L. Lyon at the time on the race to street bike conversion. Post war he returned to join Andrew Strand as an officer in Strand Manufacturing. Beardsley's letter says he was referred by Lyon.

Regarding that particular bike, there is a nice photo early in this thread showing Strand and DeLadi. I have spoken with DeLadi's daughter and son. The son was in his 20's during that work at Egeberg's shop and he oft hung out there with his Dad. That job took 3 years and cost $22,000 per his recollection way back then.

About the sled, we knew nothing of it until digging thru old attic boxes after my grandparents both passed. The sled photos were mixed in with motorcycle photos and was a very nice surprise. No idea what ever happened to it. He had street Cyclones too, but I don't know if the engine came from a bike or inventory.

[HarleyCreation]

The issue is May (I think) of 1970. If not May it is right around there in 70.

J.L. Beardsley wrote the story. Interestingly he has written a letter to my Grandfather shortly before that where he said he was writing a Cyclone story and is seeking information. I have the letter, but no corresponding reply. Does anyone have any leads on the publication's records or research notes that Beardsley may have made and filed during that story prep? Same for a 1961 issue of "Antique Motorcycles" where Emmett Moore wrote a nice Cyclone article. The author's interview notes for the articles may reveal interesting facts that at the time did not seem essential to the story, but may be of great interest to us today.

I don't have that issue.

Unless you can track Mr. Beardsley down, the published story is probably the best you can hope for. Finding original notes to either story would be a great tho.

Can you tell us the story of your grandfather. How did he come to get that Cyclone motor? Did he originally have the entire bike? Did he build that motor sled? What became of it? How did Beardsley come to contact him? Do you know if it was race motor or a road model?

[SMS]

The issue is May (I think) of 1970. If not May it is right around there in 70.

J.L. Beardsley wrote the story. Interestingly he has written a letter to my Grandfather shortly before that where he said he was writing a Cyclone story and is seeking information. I have the letter, but no corresponding reply. Does anyone have any leads on the publication's records or research notes that Beardsley may have made and filed during that story prep? Same for a 1961 issue of "Antique Motorcycles" where Emmett Moore wrote a nice Cyclone article. The author's interview notes for the articles may reveal interesting facts that at the time did not seem essential to the story, but may be of great interest to us today.

[HarleyCreation]

"After this, the yellow Cyclone's presence soared in motor-minded Los Angeles, and when C. L. Smith, a well know dealer, opened his new Cyclone agency on Main Street, the enthusiastic croud overflowed the building. When machines were displayed outside, the crouds stopped traffic on the street.
George Ashley, prominent in the New York City motorcycle trade, found a similar response when he opened his Cyclone dealership at 1213 Bedford Avenue in Brooklyn, that year. "


The above paragraphs are from Cycle World contributor J. L. Beardsley. I guess I should have said Showrooms on EACH coast, not from coast to coast, which was an assumption without basis at this time. Nevertheless, supplying enough bikes that these firms seemed to open a Cyclone specific outlet makes one think, and if anyone has any intel related to these sales outlets, that would be great to hear about!

I wonder if I have that Cycle World issue. Do you have the date for it?

That does make it sound like the Cyclone drew attention on the showroom floor. No doubt it did. At the time it had a reputation as the "yellow devil" and there was good reason for it. Just too bad it never won a major race. If it had lasted longer it probably would have.

As you say, the question of how many road models were actually delivered needs more documentation. I looked thru Wis. mc regs and couldn't find a single one. Nor any in the big Goodfellowship tours in Milwaukee in those years. Almost every other make was present, but not a road Cyclone in sight. Possibly things were different in other parts of the country.

[SMS]

"After this, the yellow Cyclone's presence soared in motor-minded Los Angeles, and when C. L. Smith, a well know dealer, opened his new Cyclone agency on Main Street, the enthusiastic croud overflowed the building. When machines were displayed outside, the crouds stopped traffic on the street.
George Ashley, prominent in the New York City motorcycle trade, found a similar response when he opened his Cyclone dealership at 1213 Bedford Avenue in Brooklyn, that year. "


The above paragraphs are from Cycle World contributor J. L. Beardsley. I guess I should have said Showrooms on EACH coast, not from coast to coast, which was an assumption without basis at this time. Nevertheless, supplying enough bikes that these firms seemed to open a Cyclone specific outlet makes one think, and if anyone has any intel related to these sales outlets, that would be great to hear about!

[HarleyCreation]

The high profile long distance races seem to dominate the headlines. Recounts of the events often cite the Cyclone dnf causes as "broken gas tank", "broken handlebar", "cracked frame". Despite the high oil consumption during a race, we don't often read of engine failures. Further, reading just the 300 mile feature stuff you would think the race teams were pretty much failures, however looking at the short dirt tracks in the midwest we read about johns and Cyclone taking 4 of 7 races in an evening, and in Missouri, Fleckenstein taking 4 of 4. A 1915 Kansas amateur state championship was won on a Cyclone.

Good points. It would be interesting to know how long the races were that Cyclones actually won. They entered a couple of 100 mile races in Milwaukee in 1915, but didn't do well there. Nor in the famous 1915 Dodge City 300-mile race. But the shorter events may have been more successful. That would be a fun study.

As far as production numbers, I would think the sometimes quoted 300 makes sense. On the currently known bikes, we see serial numbers from 4 up into the mid 150s if my memory is right. Accounts of dealerships in L.A. "stopping traffic" when the new machines were put on display, and crouds overflowing the show rooms in Brooklyn give reason to belive a decent number existed if they could stock showrooms from coast to coast.

But did they "stock showrooms" from coast to coast? It doesn't look that way from the old mags I have seen. The known record of deliveries appears very small. I don't know the answer, but a "300" bike production seems large for a make that shows up on the race track more often than on the road. We also know early manfs faked production by boosting high serial numbers just to look good. We need more good original info.

Thanks!

[SMS]

The high profile long distance races seem to dominate the headlines. Recounts of the events often cite the Cyclone dnf causes as "broken gas tank", "broken handlebar", "cracked frame". Despite the high oil consumption during a race, we don't often read of engine failures. Further, reading just the 300 mile feature stuff you would think the race teams were pretty much failures, however looking at the short dirt tracks in the midwest we read about johns and Cyclone taking 4 of 7 races in an evening, and in Missouri, Fleckenstein taking 4 of 4. A 1915 Kansas amateur state championship was won on a Cyclone.

As far as production numbers, I would think the sometimes quoted 300 makes sense. On the currently known bikes, we see serial numbers from 4 up into the mid 150s if my memory is right. Accounts of dealerships in L.A. "stopping traffic" when the new machines were put on display, and crouds overflowing the show rooms in Brooklyn give reason to belive a decent number existed if they could stock showrooms from coast to coast.

[Chuck#1848]

I have to agree Cory, if we think about it I am sure that quite a few different brands of motors ended up as snow machines and saws among other things.

Thankyou to everyone that has been contributing to this thread it is truly amazing the resources and knowlege that is here.

The guy I was originally talking to about this topic and the amount of Cyclones made is suppose to come over this weekend,I think I will set him down infront of the computer for a real educational experience..........maybe pick up a new member to.

Man.......I can't wait till Oley!!