Hidden Room at H-D?

[INLINE4NUT]

Like Chris I got to see 1st hand some time in the 90s just before all the plans to move it were being made we had dinner with the fellow in charge of setting up the new museum! Being there was truely a treat!!! If fact in the backroom there was prototype V-Rod,my friend a dealer was making a deal to pick up 2 of those motors Im sure in time they will be worth something big !

[chas]

Ouch!!! I wonder if that fella will look back one day and wonder why that decision was made?

Every company either evolves or dies, HD was no exception. I found it sad their lawyers were to have alleged the destruction of their collected green bound engineering files 25 or so years ago. No copies, excepting what drafts we engineers saved.

Restoration doesn't make sense to me either - no matter how exact. It usually results in the destruction of the original aged patina. Speaking of restoration take 'ol Blue my '68 FLH, found for me by a dear friend at an ol tar paper shack in a swamp in the deep South. Long ago battle scars, patched up enough to make safe, bearings, wiring & power train rebuilt with HD parts, dismissed by most, but none the less loved. Dumped that blankity blank Tillotson for a Bendix tho.

[c.o.]

Sadly some ignoramus at the MoCo decided to "Restore" some of the machines that were scratched.

Ouch!!! I wonder if that fella will look back one day and wonder why that decision was made?

[Chris Haynes]

There was back in the 80's, 3500 W. Juneau. As proof I point to a photo appeared in an 80's - early 90's H-D catalog inside the said room, with the familiar brick walls. It was two racks high, with bikes lined up by year, every model for every year including Japan's knock off 45. I know I saw it on the 6th floor. It was a privilege as I was not granted access when I worked there.

You are talking about the MoCo collection. One bike from every year, Not every model from every year. By the 1980's this collection had outgrown the Juneau address and was
moved to "The Barn" at the York plant. I was able to go through it in 1982.
This collection is now back in Milwaukee in the Archives and Museum. Sadly some ignoramus at the MoCo decided to "Restore" some of the machines that were scratched.

[chas]

Maybe I'm a dreamer but I want to believe it's there......

There was back in the 80's, 3500 W. Juneau. As proof I point to a photo appeared in an 80's - early 90's H-D catalog inside the said room, with the familiar brick walls. It was two racks high, with bikes lined up by year, every model for every year including Japan's knock off 45. I know I saw it on the 6th floor. It was a privilege as I was not granted access when I worked there.

[HarleyCreation]

I Hate To Crush You Guys But As Long As There's Hype Around It, Why Wouldn't They Uncover It & End The Story Once & For All. You'd Be Better Off Digging In Your Back Yard At Least When You're Finished You Could Put In A Garden Or A Pool.
Dave

You're probably right. Forget the whole thing...

[HarleyCreation]

Some archeologists use Ground Radar to find hidden structures both in the ground and in buildings. I believs this would give answer to this question if it is possible to get access to the basement.

Back then one of my friends suggested the same thing. That would be the sensible way to test the story.

[HarleyCreation]

Herb,
To add to this,when they remodled the basement,they cut several holes through walls and had these cores that were 8" to 18" across and roughly 12" to 14" deep.
My Dad brought these home and used them for plant stands in his yard.
Ken

Ken, Do you still have those cores? That would be cool.

Very interesting about those "cores."

Do you know why they cut the holes and where it was done? As I remember, that remodeling was finished before the story came out. Someone even said that if they had known when they did the remodeling, they might have been able to explore more extensively.

What year was that work done?

The wall I saw looked old. But I cannot recall if there were patches of cut out areas or not. Maybe the photos show it. Color slides I think.

I wonder if they cored the walls to see how thick and strong they were? That area dates back to 1910-'12.

[HarleyCreation]

Squibby said it was true.... Maybe the Motor Co. does actually know what's behind that wall and is conveniently dodging the subject under the guise of the H-D "mystique". Maybe there's nothing behind that thick ol' concrete but it would be nice to hear a full story one way or the other...

They don't know. That I'm pretty sure of. If you could go down in the basement and look around, you'd know why. I don't even know exactly where they drilled, or if it was in the spot that Squibby said it was.

Maybe there is nothing there. But again, unless Squib was fibbing (and I NEVER sensed him ever doing that), I can't see any reason why a guy who was working there in 1907 already would make a story like that up. Possibly, but why? He wasn't doing it for advertising purposes or building up his own prestige, but only telling a young tester because (as Squib said): "He liked my riding style."

Maybe we can revisit the story sometime in detail and weave in the story of the Red Brick Factory and the life and times of "old Sherbie" (as Squib called him) altho he was younger than most of us when he died on the road in the Holy Hill area. He shouldn't have tried passing that truck. Or was that Max Kobs did that? No, I think Max was killed by a drunk farmer.

I need to visit the spot of Sherbie's fatal crash sometime. I know exactly where it is. It would be a nice ride on a summer day. That is good riding country up there by Holy Hill and environs.

[HarleyCreation]

Does anyone actually believe that the MoCo doesn't know what's behind that wall?

They don't know. No one knows. The only person that ever said anything was Sherbie Becker, and he died back in the 1920s.

There is nobody in this club with more of an "in" than Herb Wagner, if any outsider knew the whole story he would.

All I know is the second-hand story obtained from old Squibby. And I did get close to the wall area and touched it. But unless you have x-ray eyes you can't see thru solid concrete.

That nonsense about them not drilling far enough or completely investigating the "mystery" regarding that supposedly unaccounted for space in the basement is just that: nonsense.

Why is it nonsense? As I understood it (I wasn't there) their drilling was shallow -- at best a foot or so -- while that wall area is thick and massive. The bosses wouldn't let them go crazy and tear the factory apart over a vague story. I even seem to recall they might have gotten in trouble for doing it.

When the camera crew films them busting through the wall I'll bet Geraldo Rivera has more egg on his face than when he went into Al Capone's secret vault. Maybe one of the old harley factory workers will burst out of the secret room, smash Geraldo in the face, and ask him "do you think this is real"?

That's funny! But the the original Harley-Davidson Motor Co. is not the same thing as Geraldo Rivera, altho everyone seems to think so. We're talking motorcycles here and a possible early sense of tradition, nostalgia, and heritage. Plus we do know that things sometimes go missing and only turn up many many years later in unexpected places.

Who will deny that? Don't we all have stories like that? (Gosh, I just had an awful thought. Yikes!)

[HarleyCreation]

Hope I'm not stepping on any toes or anything, but I sent the link to this thread, (with Herb's Enthusiast story) to PBS's History Detectives to see if they wanted to look into it.

Maybe they will get with HD (and we all know how much HD would like the free publicity) and get some interest going in solving this.

That's cool. But they'll have to bring their pneumatic jack-hammers along to bust down that thick concrete wall. It's massive. If there's something back there it was sealed up for the ages and no mistake. I have a theory....

[HarleyCreation]

Herb...... there's gotta be somebody in this club that's got an "in" in Milwaukee that could maybe get the ball rolling at a little more progressive pace regarding the "hidden room". Surely it would make great publicity to unearth a time capsule from right under their noses.....

I can't wait to see the eight-valve article surface. I, like others really appreciate the effort that goes into your written works. Thanks for stepping up to spread the truth!

That's a good idea. I was able to go down in the basement and take photos of the spot as Squib described it to me. He was pretty exact where it was, but it's still a large area, and he wasn't along the day I was down there. I was able to pace off the distance to ramp going outside from the old testers' room. So I have a pretty good idea of the age of that part of the factory.

The Harley eight-valve story (part 1) is pretty much down. It contains several "hidden rooms" of its own. That is, much of what has been written about the early eight-valve is incorrect, sometimes wildly so. I was surprised at what I found.

[HarleyCreation]

Herb Maybe he wasnt lying,maybe he was building mystic !!!

Maybe, but I don't think so. The way Squib related the story was that it was on their lunch hour and Sherbie Becker just took him around the corner from the testers' room to the spot in the basement and mentioned it. Not long after that Sherbie was killed on the road. Maybe he had a premonition, I don't know.

[BNSONS]

I Hate To Crush You Guys But As Long As There's Hype Around It, Why Wouldn't They Uncover It & End The Story Once & For All. You'd Be Better Off Digging In Your Back Yard At Least When You're Finished You Could Put In A Garden Or A Pool.
Dave

[Dave R]

When the camera crew films them busting through the wall I'll bet Geraldo Rivera has more egg on his face than when he went into Al Capone's secret vault.

Yes, more than likely the hidden room contains the same thing as Al's vault.
That doesn't change the fact that it would make an interesting TV show, when you consider the garbage that is the alternative.

I'd watch it. I'd bet 95% of the people on this forum would.