Applause to Antique Motorycle Club Facebook Page

[Lonnie]

Regarding Facebook and even blog websites such as blogspot.com, I have seen where many former participants on those have migrated, some exclusively, to Instagram. One pic and some verbage, ideal for a smartphone. As far as Twitter, I think it could be a great form of communication to a group, such as notifying chapter members of some upcoming event or other occurrence, but I agree that it's use as a restoration tool is quite limited.

[D.A.Bagin]

Thanks for the review discussing the "35 year" rule. I guess bikes keep getting older and the range of these old bikes keep getting wider.

Unfortunately this describes not only the motorcycles.

[Steve Swan]

Thanks for the review discussing the "35 year" rule. I guess bikes keep getting older and the range of these old bikes keep getting wider.

[AFJ]

[QUOTE=Steve Swan;144640]So...

Did Wing and associates establish the "35 year rule" in 1954 ? Assuming they did not, when did this rule begin ? Why ?/QUOTE]

Steve,
When the AMC was formed in 1954 they adopted the VMCC (Vintage Motor Cycle Club of Britain) cut-off for Vintage motorcycles (but called them "Antique Motorcycles. Any motorcycle made in 1930 or earlier were the ones the AMC would be "interested in".

By 1970, the AMC had two classes of motorcycles, Antique (up to and including 1929) and Post Antique (1930 to 1942)

In 1981 the Antique class was up to and including 1929, the Post Antique was 1930 to 1945, and the Post War Class was 1946 to 1951. In Judging there was also a Power Cycle class (through 1952) and a Competition class (through 1951). So there was, in effect, a "30 year rule" operating.

In 1989, the Post War Class was deemed to have a 35 year rolling age. Which is still in effect, although the judging system was completely altered in the early 1990s with 10 year age groups and bikes were not judged against one another but to a determined "standard.

In the late 1990s the 35 year old rule for eligibility of motorcycles used on National Road Runs was waived for any member who was 65 years old or older. Such members could ride a motorcycle of any age.

AFJ

[BoschZEV]

This is a very interesting thread, and nice because there is no venom in this discussion.

No venom because everyone contributing to this thread has the best interests of the AMCA at heart and are making suggestions from their own experiences that they think might be relevant toward that end. Everyone wants the AMCA to be "better" in the future. The problem is coming to a consensus on what "better" means, and then figuring out ways to achieve the goal.

[Steve Swan]

Eric, right on. AMA let www.cb750sandcastonly.com be the 2009 Classic Club for VMD. We had around 6 or 8 sandcast CB750's and passionate enthusiast members from England, Australia and Sweden.

[exeric]

This is a very interesting thread, and nice because there is no venom in this discussion. One point to consider in all of this is the international element. Vintage American motorcycles are very sought after, and lusted for in Asia, Europe, and Scandinavia. Thanks to the European chapter of the AMCA, and the efforts of people like Steve Slocombe, and Peter Reeves, the AMCA is represented across the Atlantic. Still, that is a big challenge, and one that the AMCA should take more seriously. I still contend that a stable base like this forum, and an accessible database of literature, and photographs would be a useful lure to new, and older members. Once you're in the club, you need substance to sustain the passion.

[Steve Swan]

So... Bravo to those who have AMCA on facebook. Thank you for your fine efforts. Good on you for taking your turn.

This probably is getting off track and likely has been discussed prior. I'm just trying to establish some perspective of how things change.

Did Wing and associates establish the "35 year rule" in 1954 ? Assuming they did not, when did this rule begin ? Why ?

The array of motorcycles and the era in which Wing and associates founded AMCA has changed. Only motorcycles 1919 and older would be included in the club. (Indian was out of business barely 1 year, not 62.) Communication took more time and was always more personal. Not much thought, if any, was given to including motorcycles produced in 1954 for club membership in 1979.

If the purpose of the AMCA is to welcome and embrace all comers to motorcycles 35 years and older, then facebook, twitter and any other social network looks like a good possibility for 2040 to be a successful year for 2015 motorcycles to be included in the AMCA's 35 year old rule. And, if these newcomers, who don't own a 62 or 75 or 100 year old machine are not interested in such ownership or can never afford to own such vintage, then ok. Perhaps they like what they grew up with and can afford, something that's then 35 years old or older.

It seems the AMCA has made clear it's definition of and for "antique" motorcycles. 35 years and older. that means all inclusive from pre-1900 through 1979. Wow. that's a range. Of course, there will be pinpoint interests or even "cliques." Whether they were intended to look like pinpoint interests or "cliques" is another thing. What i perceive, is the AMCA attempting to be all inclusive and dispell any feeling to the newcomer of "cliques," since apparently harm has been caused by such clique's actual existance.

It does not seem AMCA wants to confine interest of antique to motorcycles produced before 1954, but to at least 1979 AND in about 33 days 1980 will be the new cut off year.

Perhaps the 35 year rule is a damaging thing. Who out there looks at motorcycles produced currently or in the last 35 years as future collectables ? For example, an unmolested 1999 Kawasaki Hayabusa is already collectable, not yet admissable to AMCA membership. Perhaps there are some people who would like to show off a future AMCA candidate, even though they could not be a member. 1982, being 30 years old, i had a number of different pre-54 Indian models. Most AMCA members then, who owned bikes older than me, paid my later Indian models no never mind. They were clearly in their own sphere of interest. No fault, no harm there. I also had a number of collectable British pre-unit singles. When i brought them to a regional meet in 1982, i was politely told, "While they are unusual and neat bikes in their own right, they are not what this meet is here for." Ok, note that. I don't remember there being a 35 year rule mentioned, maybe there was and i missed that part. And, certainly in 1982, few would have dreamt bringing any Japanese bike to any AMCA meet.

I believe the AMCA is attempting being inclusive. Certainly, by their very own nature, pre-1954 motorcycles are more exclusive, if nothing else than by their more limited numbers and character. So, to my way of thinking, facebook, twitter, etc, etc, is a necessity. Like it, use it or not. Times and things change.

Maybe i've missed the boat with some of my views or perceptions... if the case, i won't feel hurt being corrected.

Lottsa cans with lottsa worms in 'em.

[BoschZEV]

If AMCA is about celebrating ALL antique motorcycles and bringing those people together, they will come.
But it's going to be a tall order if AMCA is going to try to be all things to all antique motorcycles and all their perspective owners.

That's an excellent point that gets to the root of the problem for the future. When I first became aware of the AMCA in the 1970s it was "well known" to only care about American motorcycles. British (let alone Japanese) motorcycles were tolerated at best. Although non-American bikes have insinuated themselves to some extent into AMCA activities since then the word "tolerated" still seems not totally inappropriate.

The AMCA certainly could live on well into the future catering only to Harleys and American-made Harley clones so one question the membership will have to wrestle with is if that, indeed, is what they prefer. If so, separate clubs will (continue) to serve other machines, so perhaps 50 years from now will see an AMCA membership of 250 with 'The Antique Motorcycle' a 5-page quarterly newsletter (posted on Facebook...).

Despite the "Wild One" reputation motorcyclists are quite conservative (I offer the 1970s XLCR as the first piece of evidence -- Harley riders don't buy Harleys that don't look like Harleys, which is why a 2014 Harley looks pretty much like a 1934 Harley). So, if the AMCA is to effectively manage to open its doors wider in the 21st century it is going to take some pretty skilled efforts on the part of the leadership to accomplish this.

[Steve Swan]

Great points, Brother BoschZEV.

My post certainly was not intended to be an exhaustive diatribe or historical perspective of all observation or considerations regarding which particular communication medium (or mediums) "best to ensure it (AMCA) still will be a healthy organization in 20 years."

My post was intended to acknowledge the viewpoint i formed from skimming the posts previous to draw out more great points such as yours.

Good stuff... ! "if I could post a picture here but I'm about to run out of the 17 characters rema)"

oops, gee. only 17 characters.... guess i better post on the amca forum or consult a copy of the original manual. Or make a phone call.

i guess the short version of this is: Today's younger set like facebook and twitter. When i used to be the younger set, i did not have facebook or twitter. To attract the next generation, only makes sense ,we had better go with the times.

Sometimes, some things outlive their usefulness. I would sure hope that's not the case with the AMCA. Time goes on, that's for sure. What is "antique" today, sure was not antique 35 years ago.

If AMCA is about celebrating ALL antique motorcycles and bringing those people together, they will come (and facebook will help bring people.)

But it's going to be a tall order if AMCA is going to try to be all things to all antique motorcycles and all their perspective owners.

If AMCA is going to be "healthy" organization in 20 years and since new motorcycles keep getting older, then we probably have no choice but to use what current convention has to offer. Whether the individual chooses to use or not is another issue.

I've got 60's Japanese bikes. I go to 60's Japanese bike websites for information. My 1927 JD, I come here and other related forums. My flintlock rifles, I go to flintlock rifle sources, not semi-auto. i shoot my flintlock with a friend who is a not black powder guy. We celebrate the heritage when we shoot together. Then we go home. He spends more time shooting with his semi-auto buddies than he does with me and my flintlock. I spend more time working on my old motorcycles and cleaning my flintlock.

a 14 year old who likes motorcycles in general will go to where their individual interests are fed. Depending on what influences them, they may come to AMCA. I guess that's our job to provide awareness to influence future generation's interest in bikes 35 years and older. And get involved with them. To the 14 year old who has some innate or learned interest in 35 year and older bikes and appreciation for heritage, it's our job to fuel the fire. facebook or hands on mentoring. Whatever is most appropriate for the situation, most effective to achieve a goal, then DO IT. If facebook is here to stay.... Great. If it's best for the AMCA, then use it.

However. The AMCA is not facebook.

[BoschZEV]

Being the devil's ignorant advocate here, in the long run, it's not going to matter what medium of communication is used.

Well, yes and no. It's true that to some extent we have no control over it, in that if our only form of communication had been telex we would no longer be able to communicate since that system has been shut down. However, the issue isn't about what medium will be most commonly used 20 years from now, it's about what the AMCA should be doing now to ensure it still will be a healthy organization in 20 years.

i recently joined facebook so i could follow our Australian friend's JD cylinder production efforts. Now i have 40 friends ! facebook, twitter.... i guess we use what we are born into and society expects us to use.

Again yes and no about what we use. While a few people might follow a restoration thread via 140-character tweets (Today I installed the oil pump using a special tool whose design would be easy to understand if I could post a picture here but I'm about to run out of the 17 characters rema), very few would find this medium of use for this purpose irrespective of whether or not "society expects us to use" it.

Some forms of communication were short lived (Myspace), some were around for quite a while before disappearing (fax machines), and others have been here for even longer (books). But, again, the issue isn't about putting all AMCA's eggs into one communication basket to last into the future, it's whether the nature of certain of the baskets around today make it reasonable to put any eggs in them at all. Limited to 140 characters and no graphics seems to me, at least, to make Twitter a basket that holds very little of use to the AMCA whether or not "society expects us to use" it. If I am correct, AMCA's resources would be better directed elsewhere to attract new members.

[Steve Swan]

Being the devil's ignorant advocate here, in the long run, it's not going to matter what medium of communication is used, so long as what we know today is passed forward.

25 years ago, about all we had was post cards and wall phones. Being on the front end of a very long curve things internet communication related, my pecking away at the keyboard will become obsolete when? email, forums, facebook, twitter, what have you... all experiments finding the next "best" way to communicate when eye to eye is not possible. once the experimenting is done, we'll have what works best for some period of extended time. right now, "imho," this internet communication is in the same place Samuel Morse was, when he discovered he could communicate using electromagnetic energy. In the case of how much control we have over "social media" affecting our passion, it's difficult to say how much of our contemporary concern will someday become the future generation's historical musings. None the less, at the least, it's our entertainment for each passing day. i guess the observation i have is how much of what communication methods we are using today will be here in 25-50 years? Fad will fade away and what is more constant will remain for a longer period. How many of us treasure holding an original piece of literature in our hand or an actual photograph v.s. pecking away to look at a computer generated picture? Each medium probably has it's own purpose to serve the user best.

AMCA and antique motorcycle-wise, going with the times is one thing. and likely a good thing. i recently joined facebook so i could follow our Australian friend's JD cylinder production efforts. Now i have 40 friends ! facebook, twitter.... i guess we use what we are born into and society expects us to use. for me, i was born into wall phones and post cards, when a face to face visit wasn't possible. But, i've sure grown to like email and this forum. Cheaper than gas and saves time getting ready for a road trip to meet up with friends.

Restoring my 27 JD, i probably won't go to twitter or facebook much, but i sure been on this forum and collecting/resourcing "hardcopy" alot. Doubt Matt Olsen refers to facebook when he needs to know what to do next on for his restoration work. Facebook or twitter is one thing, but if i need to know something, chances are i'm going to have to go deeper if i want to learn more than what's on facebook or twitter. And, for those who are comfortable with what they think they know from being part of facebook/twitter, more power to 'em. i guess i see facebook and twitter as calling cards to come experience the real deal.

Anyway..... way too much coming out of my ignorant fingertips. From time to time, i've noted my identity getting caught up in forums. Not so much anymore. Leave that to the "keyboard commandos." Nice term, i like it. A forum i infrequently frequent, there is a member who sounds like he has learned enough to become an authority as the result of currently being up to having written just over 20,000 posts on perhaps at least one of his favorite forums. i'm guessing he's on facebook and twitter also. possibly a good resource to learn where oil filters are sold.

[BoschZEV]

AMCA needs a Twitter account, too, if it's to connect with people younger than, say, me....

I find it difficult to believe anyone who has ever seen/used Twitter would think it would be useful for AMCA. A hammer is a very useful tool, but if the job is to cut valve seats a hammer is not appropriate at all. To the extent Twitter is a useful tool for some things does not make it a useful tool for all things.

Writers for magazines tout social media like Twitter as the current Big Thing, but that doesn't mean it has any relevance for the AMCA. The job of those writers is to write superficial pieces that sound contemporary and few have the skills or training to understand anything much deeper than that. If the AMCA is to move forward as current members age out of the membership database it has to understand what it is doing and not expend time or resources on things that are unlikely to do any good. Like create 140-word tweets to post on Twitter that somehow would entice people to join AMCA. As another example, 'Good Housekeeping' magazine has circulation of over 4M, but it would be foolish to spend money advertising for new AMCA members there.

If it was not for the dreaded Facebook, I may not have found AMCA

Similarly, while a few people with an interest in old motorcycles might have been totally unaware of the AMCA until they found something about it on Facebook, it is also very difficult to believe that is the normal situation. For the AMCA to spend effort on Facebook is not unlike spending money on ads in 'Good Housekeeping'. Yes, either might draw in a few new members, but one has to think a bit more deeply about the cost/benefit. Just because magazines say "everyone" is using Facebook and Twitter does not mean either is a good source for recruiting future AMCA members.

[50Panhead]

Greetings all
I'll put my $0.02 in here.. If it was not for the dreaded Facebook, I may not have found AMCA and I'm not a Youngen. I have been into Antique motorcycles most all my life. Its only been in the last 15 years that I have expanding my collection and working on other peoples bikes. In doing so I have had to increase my knowledge and the internet has been a God Send source of information. Once I found your FB page it was only days before I joined AMCA and was able to get on this forum. FB people I find will not answer your technical questions as you don't know who is who and who knows or is feeding you hear-say. I trust the information from here a lot better and 95% of my questions I have been able to find answers just by doing a simple search.
Thank You AMCA
Herman Fortman aka 50Panhead

[stevekleincustom]

I never said there was anything wrong with the AMCA having a facebook page. Quite the opposite; I believe it is a useful distraction for the socially obsessed. My point was; the forum is a stable receptacle for information, photos, scans of rare literature, and technical data. All of this can be found with the search function and that makes it an actual useable tool. Social media may be a good recruiting tool, but my frustrating forays at facebook showed me plenty of icing, but no cake. I have over 2,500 posts on this forum so I've used it a lot, and I have learned a lot. Unfortunately, The AMCA seems to consider this a low priority function, and judging by the activity here, so do most of our members. I'll remind you again of the CAIMAG forum that is very popular and has devoted members who actively promote antique motorcycling. Many of their new members are young people who joined that forum because of the help they can get, and the searchable knowledge in the voluminous wealth of stored technical info, photos, and advice. So, I think the task of the AMCA is to define what kind of new members it wants. If we're just going for quantity of new members glued to an iPhone, then I think that course will lead to failure. If the AMCA can offer a gem of a club that can help struggling vintage bike enthusiasts who are alone in the wilderness, I believe the AMCA will continue to be the great club it has been.

As usual Eric... You are very articulate, well thought and deep in your convictions with your deliveries regardless of topic. I respect such. May I suggest (and this is not directed towards you) that there are Social Media Users (The Forum is Social Media as well) that do have members who want to do more than just share information or help others. These Keyboard Commandos often want to Force Their Opinion(s), Debate and Ultimately Win the Debate it often seems.
Just one AMCA Members observation at times.

And also... Not everyone on FaceBook, Twitter, Instagram et all are "socially obsessed" maybe true for a large percentage of users... But a blanket generality none-the-less for others who do not over indulge. Some of us find it quicker and easier to just view old historic photos for entertainment. Like thumbing through a magazine.

All The Best