Excelsior 1911

[RON]

Hello there fellow veteran riders, I have the following request :
I am the owner of the excelsior 1911 on the photo. The bike was sold on the Davenport fair years ago. Previously it was sold by an old bike dealer in Illinois who is no longer among us I was told. There is a distinctive 1911 in gold paint on the side of the tank and I have been told it has been put up there when Ignaz Schwinn took over the company. Was the bike in a museum? Does any-one knows the bike? Could anyone tell me anything about the history of the bike? The engine number is 20166.
Who can help? Best wishes,
Ron

[AdminGuy]

Hi,

Are you sure that the engine is a 1911 engine. From what I know the following list is fairly correct:

Excelsior Models:

Model ?? 1907 #000 - 289
Model ?? 1908 #290 - 835
Model ?? 1909 #836 - 3727
Model ?? 1910 #3728 - 9246
Model ?? 1911 #9247 - 15319
Model ?? 1912 #15320 - 18063
Model 61 1913 #18064 - 48977
Model 61 1914 #48978 - 55909

---------------------------------------

Model 61 1914 #50000 - 63499
Model 61 1915 #63500 - 74999
Model 61 1916 #75000 - 88199
Model 61 1917 #88200 - 93374
Model 61 1918 #93375 - 97372
Model 61 1919 #97373 - 103499
Model 61 1920 #103500 - 107499
Model 61 1921 #107500 - 107999
Model 61 1922 #108000 - 108499
Model 61 1923 #108500 - 108799
Model 61 1924 #108800 and up
Super-X 45 1925 #1000 - 2999
Super-X 45 1926 #3000 - 4499
Super-X 45 1927 #4500 - 4999
Super-X 45 1928 #5000 - 6499
Super-X 45 1929 #6500 - 6999
Super-X 45 1930 #7000 - 7399
Super-X 45 1931 #7400 and up

From this list your engine should be a 1913.

[RON]

Thanks for your reply, but it is suposed to be from 1911, check your mail at home, best regards, Ron

[LouieMCman]

Your bike seems to be an early frame and front end and a later tank and engine ??? Got any other pictures?

Louie

[RON]

Thanks for your reply Louis, but check the literature!!!!
The bike is 1911 and in as found condition.

[LouieMCman]

I wasn't looking at the literature but the bike, I'm not an expert on Excelsior by any means, but just thought the tanks should have the Excelsior Autocycle script on it and not the X. Cool bike, wish it was mine!

Louie

[RON]

91

Thanks again Louis! The X on the tank is something that is indeed strange to some. I will explain. In 1911 or 1912 I don't know the exact date, Arnold Schwinn took over the company of excelsior and invented indeed the new logo that you have described.The X! Note that the X at my bike is rather bigger then the X's on the later bikes. The story is that Arnold has ordered to put the X on all the bikes that left the factory after he took over. I have proof of this through the help of a dear American friend. He has period photos of such a bike.
As for the exact date of the bike, we have to take in account that bikes were not thrown on the scrap heap after a new model was introduced, we can resume that it is the model 1911 but could easely have been assembled in 12. Who knows. Important is that we enjoy them, cherish them, take'em now and then on the road and let people see how it was done back in the eary days.
Thanks again for your reaction!

[Johnny]

Mr. Schwinn's first name was actually Ignaz.
Nice bike !!!

[Ken Lee]

1911 Excelsior

Hello Ron , nice bike , nice to see another Ex this side of the pond, I have just got an as found 1912 Excelsior single but engine number 17190 , it runs well and will be out riding it , it too has an 'X' on the tank and the leaf spring forks , if anyone recognises the engine number let me know any history please , I understand it was imported into Holland in about 1996 , now resides in England , where can I find any Excelsior literature , anyone know ??? many thanks , Ken Lee

[exeric]

For what it's worth, I do not disagree that it is a 1911 however, it should be grey with red panels, maroon borders and blue, red, and gold striping. This motorcycle looks to be a light green with dark green striping. Generally speaking, it should have the cursive "Excelsior Auto Cycle" tank logo but I do not doubt that old Ignatz would have sold anything in his building that wasn't nailed down, and if putting later decals on a tank would sell a bike. . . . It would be done. Generally speaking the "Big X" tank badge ran from 1912-1918. The smaller "X" started in 1919. My theory is the motorcycle was repainted many years ago, and most probably by a dealer, which was a common practice, just like today.

Schwinn would never have put a date on a motorcycle tank, nor would any manufacturer. The numerals on this motorcycle had to have been put on by an "old timey" museum curator. Steve McQueen had a bunch of motorcycles that came out of museum that looked very similar to this Excelsior and they all had their dates painted on the tanks or other prominant places.

Regarding Excelsior and Henderson engine numbers. The engine number lists floating around are good for reference only as far as I'm concrerned. If you ever saw a copy of the research Charlie Carter and Cliff Peese did many years ago you would see many discrepencies. Back in the 1970's they invited the owners of Ex's and Hen's to submit their engine numbers for any engine they had, running, spare, or junk. I have always considered that list to be gospel because it is compiled from genuine motorcycles. Whenever someone tells me a certain Excelsior or Henderson is a specific year because of the engine number, I take it with a grain of salt. Somewhere I saw a copy of a title for a 1920 big X that Schwinn sold from old inventory in 1940, and sold it as a 1940 motorcycle. Everything was for sale at Excelsior and a few years here or there didn't matter, especially if it could be sold overseas.

Sorry to drone on and on. Hen's and Ex's are a passion for me.

[c.o.]

I have a pic of an '11 Excelsior in front of me right now and I'd have to say that exeric nailed it! That big X tank decal was used on later models and could very well have been put on later down the line......... Whatever the case they were an awful purty machine!!!!!

[LouieMCman]

That is what I said in back in April, but what do I know.......

Louie

[INLINE4NUT]

It looks to me to be a very nice MC that has survived a long life quite nicely and I wouldnt say no to owning it under any terms! Let us all not orget NONE of US were ALIVE back then many things are possible and more than likely took place! So for one to say this or that isnt right because of a picture...well we could debate that till the cows come home! I had a 24 henderson that Walter Miller found in Conn sometime ago with original paint,it is a marvelous machine and has scored high a long time ago,even with documentation people still argue about some of the finer points of the machine,I guess the beat will go on!
MYSELF, ill take the X in question anytime it looks PRETTY nice to me!

[exeric]

INLINE4NUT has a good point regarding the authenticity of old motorcycles. Our knowledge comes in drips and drabs for the more obsure bikes, including Henderson and Excelsior. Harley's are very well supported by factory documentation, Indian's are poor for some models, and Ex, and Hen are about the same. If you have a Pope, Yale, Merkel, M-M, R-S, Theim, or Marvel. . . etc. you have a problem. In many cases your restoration is going to rely on the obbsessive study of pictures, and the most obscure bits of information you can gleen from anything, or anybody.

The important thing to keep in mind is that almost every motorcycle ever made has been "personalized" by it's first owner to it's latest owner. Even when a bike is restored, ( no matter how well ) it is no longer in original condition. We all have our opinions regarding authenticity, how (or if ) to restore a motorcycle, and of coarse, how well a motorcycle is restored. These opinions differ with every club member and that is a good thing. Judging aspires help every entrant make their motorcycle perfect but we all know that will never happen, and that is a good thing too. It's the weird little things people do to a motorcycle that promotes inovation, and just makes them fun.

[RON]

Thanks you all and read the other new thread, my mistake. Here the photo I have foud, best regards,
Ron