new waiver form............

[jmanjeff]

that was proposed to be used for each member to sign before they can have their bike judged.

What is it????
Please post a copy if you can't do that send it email or mail it to me and i will post for the members to see and be informed

[Robin-M]

AMCA JUDGING DISCLAIMER

The undersigned, a member in good standing of The Antique Motorcycle Club of America, Inc., a Florida corporation not for profit (“AMCA”), acknowledges that:

1. The AMCA has an established system for judging its members’ antique motorcycles, that is those motorcycles which are 35 years old or older. The established system has been set up solely for the use of AMCA members who preserve antique motorcycles as closely as possible to the respective factory standards as determined from time to time by the AMCA at its absolute, exclusive, and sole discretion, and for the purpose of accommodating the judging of its members’ antique motorcycles. The established system is not to be used by AMCA members or non-members to affect, determine, or influence the value of any antique motorcycle or for any other reason except as stated above.

2. The number of points and judging classification placed on a motorcycle by AMCA judges assigned to judge an antique motorcycle at a sanctioned AMCA event are in the best judgment of the judges who judge the motorcycle and is not an indication or a guarantee of the motorcycle’s completeness, correctness, or value when such is compared to the respective factory standard adopted by the AMCA and its judges.

3. Any member of the AMCA who applies to have an antique motorcycle judged under the AMCA established system for judging its members’ antique motorcycles, including the undersigned, acknowledges and agrees that the AMCA does not guarantee the accuracy or sufficiency of the judges’ determination and recognizes and understands that AMCA judges may often differ on the number of points and judging classification given to any antique motorcycle at any sanctioned AMCA event.

4. Any AMCA member, including the undersigned, who desires to sell an antique motorcycle which has been judged by AMCA judges at any sanctioned AMCA event acknowledges and agrees that the value of any antique motorcycle is determined solely by the willing seller and the willing buyer regardless of the number of points and/or judging classification given to an antique motorcycle under the AMCA established system for judging its members’ antique motorcycles.

5. The use of the AMCA’s established system for judging its members’ antique motorcycles by any person, whether an AMCA member or not, as stated above, is contrary to the purpose of the established system for judging, and therefore, the undersigned agrees to and shall hold the AMCA harmless and indemnify the AMCA from any liability whatsoever, including reasonable attorneys’ fees at both the trial and appellate levels, for the use of the AMCA established system for judging its members’ antique motorcycles in violation of this AMCA Judging Disclaimer.

6. The undersigned agrees that this AMCA Judging Disclaimer shall be governed by the laws of the State of Florida. The undersigned agrees that this AMCA Judging Disclaimer is intended to be as broad and inclusive as is permitted by the laws of the State of Florida and that if any portion is held invalid, the balance shall continue in full legal force and effect.

7. The undersigned agrees that in any action brought to enforce or to interpret this AMCA Judging Disclaimer, the prevailing party shall be entitled to recover his, hers, its, or their costs and reasonable attorneys’ fees, including, without limitation, attorneys’ fees incurred in connection with any appeal or certiorari proceeding and the sole and exclusive venue of any such action shall be in the circuit or county court of Polk County, Florida, or in the United States District Court for the judicial district in which Polk County, Florida, is or may be located. The undersigned renounces and waives any right to have any such controversy litigated in any other place whether pursuant to the doctrine of forum non conveniens or otherwise. The undersigned renounces and waives any right whatsoever to a trial by jury. For the purposes of the AMCA Judging Disclaimer, “any action brought to enforce or to interpret this AMCA Judging Disclaimer” shall be construed to mean litigation, arbitration, mediation, and any other legal or quasi-legal proceeding.

8. No antique motorcycle will be judged by the AMCA unless the AMCA member signed this AMCA Judging Disclaimer in the space provided below or by filing an electronic application for such judging, including this AMCA Judging Disclaimer, on the official AMCA website.

___________________________________
AMCA Member AMCA #

___________________________________
Print Name of Member

Date:_______________________________

[exeric]

Lawyers wreck everything. Now they've contaminated my hobby.

[Edd]

. The undersigned agrees that this AMCA Judging Disclaimer shall be governed by the laws of the State of Florida.

So now you have to know the laws in Florida.............

I would think if you are going to have a desclaimer it would mention SOMETHING about any damage that could happen to the bike while parked in the judging field. But I guess that is not what this is all about. Just POINTS.

RUSMOW

Ed

[joestuff]

As far as I know, nobody has yet been asked to sign the form. I wonder if someone sued over points, or if there is fear that it will happen someday. The only issue I have with the form is the "right to trial by jury". While one can wave constitutional rights...one should not, nor be asked to.

The right to trial by jury in a civil case is addressed by the 7th Amendment, which provides: "In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law."

[Robin-M]

Hi Everyone,

The second version of the the new judging disclaimer has been posted and is being discussed in the Parking Lot Chatter section of this forum.

Thank you,
Robin

[Paps]

. The undersigned agrees that this AMCA Judging Disclaimer shall be governed by the laws of the State of Florida.

So now you have to know the laws in Florida.............

I would think if you are going to have a desclaimer it would mention SOMETHING about any damage that could happen to the bike while parked in the judging field. But I guess that is not what this is all about. Just POINTS.

RUSMOW

Ed

Don't you worry none. The state identification will change as location of meets change. Now ya gotta know all the states laws.

[kval]

Don't you worry none. The state identification will change as location of meets change. Now ya gotta know all the states laws.

Paps
not to worry, I think the only reason it list Florida law is because the corporation is listed as a Florida corporation

[fillibuster]

Paps
not to worry, I think the only reason it list Florida law is because the corporation is listed as a Florida corporation

Richard's explanation of the rules states that one cannot advertise (or state privately?) that his for-sale machine has won amca awards, is that correct? I cannot believe that all would comply. #4 also develops the "threat" of litigation costs (thru subrogation?) for he who does advertise, and draws claims against the amca.
I'll never be a for-profit builder, but if my kids have to sell my stuff to buy a coffin (or the fuel to burn me) they'll need best buck, and a pedigree would make the diff we're talking about. It's a tough call, kval.

[jmanjeff]

Phil
I called Pete Reeves on this one Here in this post but all i got was his smoke and mirrors answer as he see's it, but not the legal answer .

[pete reeves]

Jeff.
As a member of this club and a member of this forum I have the right to post my thoughts and opinions regarding this disclaimer.
Thank you for the explanation of the meaning of the phrase “Is not to be used” Is this what you are referring to when you say you called ME on this and all you got was SMOKE AND MIRRORS?

In my first post on this topic I said I could not see anything in the wording that constitutes a threat. I have not seen anything in subsequent posts that have made me change my mind.

Pete Reeves 860

[jmanjeff]

Pete Reeves
I must say that i am sorry for being pushy on my post, i did not know you are just a AMCA Member and not on ether Foundation board or the AMCA board.

[Britluv]

waiver form

This may have been caused by non-AMCA clubs using a copy of our judging form, but neglecting to remove the AMCA name from it. I have been told that the AMCA National Judge once received a complaint from a BMW owner,
"I never received my trophy." Investigantion showed he never competed at an AMCA event, but a BMW event used the AMCA form (still with the AMCA name) as its judging form. Flattery for the AMCA, but a problem nonetheless.

[gmarakas]

I am most intrigued with items #2 and #3 in the disclaimer. What they essentially say is that the AMCA has no mechanism in place to create even a modicum of consistency in the judging and that the points you get are nothing more than the opinion of the person available to judge that day. This actually means you are getting the award (or lack of) from that person on that day rather than from the AMCA. An AMCA judge is an independent contractor that simply brings his or her opinion to the meet. They simply have to say it is so but we have to provide proof that it isn't.

We have some great judges in the AMCA who take a very developmental approach to our hobby and try to genuinely help the entrant with making the bike better. Unfortunately, they are very rare and now they are being cast aside in favor of a new regime who fancies the sounds of their own voices.

To say I am disgusted just doesn't really capture the feeling.

[Lonnie]

The judging disclaimer seems to merely verify that which most of us know to be true - the points deduction is often based on what the judge(s) on hand believe to be the true representation of the machine. I have experienced occasions where the judges' inexperience was overruled on the field by Kevin and/or a more experienced judge who was not part of that particular judging team. I have seen numerous instances where restorers where told at one meet that an item was incorrect. After researching further, the restorers made decisions to change the part or finish to correspond with what they were told it should be, only to find at the next judging session that the part or finish that they changed was the correct way to begin with. In very few cases did it bounce a bike from JR to SR or vice-versa but it is frustrating.

The disclaimer seems to authenticate that possibility of that scenario so that on down the line a potential buyer cannot have recourse against the seller.

I had significant distrust about the disclaimer when I first read it, but I have re-read it repeatedly and it seems just to be typically over-wordy lawyer-speak. I see no threat of legal threat from the AMCA to sue for use of the form as a selling tool.

See you guys at Denton. I will be the guy with grey hair.