New owner of DKW 3PS

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Hello fellas,

I'm new here, and the owner of a DKW 3PS from 1939. I bought it from another WWII reenactor who got it directly from its original owner who lives in Czeck Republik. I was just wondering if any of you have a 3PS or have worked on one? This one is running fine, but I could use some advice as to why the clutch is slipping such that the kick starter slips easily, and whether I can find a stronger clutch spring. I replaced the clutch plate cork pads with new cork, but the clutch still slips when using the kick starter. The original owner who bought it in 1939 told me via email that one typically starts the motor by simply rolling it and popping the clutch out to roll the engine over. This works reliably to get it running, but I'd like to get the clutch working better so I can use the kick starter. This is my first and only motorcycle, and it's apure joy to own an antique that is so much fun to ride, even though the top speed is only 35 mph. Anyone know where I can buy spare tires? Nice to find your forum. I live in Anoka, MN.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/g...ahwagon155.jpg

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/g...CTVS/DKW13.jpg

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/g...CTVS/DKW12.jpg

[HarleyCreation]

Welcome to the Forum!

Nice bike, and what looks to be a Wehrmacht backpack is a nice touch along with the license plate.

As to the clutch, the first thing to check is the free-play at the hand lever on the handlebars. The H-D "125" (DKW copy) calls for 1/8 to 1/4 inch free-play in the lever. That is, when you pull in the clutch lever it has that much "free" travel or slack before the parts get their act together down below in the clutch dept. If you don't have this free play the clutch will slip even if all the parts are good. You didn't mention checking that. The threaded adjuster should be on the hand lever, or possibly where the cable enters the crankcase. I can't tell for sure from the photo.

You say clutch, but another possibility might be the starter mechanism is worn and slipping and not the clutch. When you say it "bump starts" okay that makes me wonder. Typically you do not start a bike by rolling it, but with the kick starter. If the clutch is slipping why not when you bump start it? Maybe the kicker ratchet is shot, or whatever is inside there and the previous owner doesn't want to admit up to it.

Is it a wet clutch (running in oil) or a dry clutch?

I wonder if your model is the same DKW that Harley-Davidson copied as their post-WWII "125"? It looks a lot like it, except the chain appears to be on the opposite side.

Uncle Frank's Q&A shows the exploded 125 clutch. I wonder if any 125 parts are the same as in your bike and interchangeable?

Does that thing have a hand-shift on the tank?

Cool...

Back a couple/few issues in The Antique Motorcycle there was a story about charter member John Giorno, and he told about a 1930s DKW 2-stroke water-cooled racer he got out of "Afrika." Very cool bike!

darrylri is our resident expert on German Iron. He might have some info for you.

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

The clutch is wet, and it appears that I will have to disassemble the engine to re-examine how the kick starter interfaces with the clutch. The kick starter will not engage the motor when the clutch is engaged, so I thought that kick starter was turning the engine but turning parts of the clutch, such that if the clutch slipped, the motor would not turn over. When the bike is started by rolling it and then letting out the clutch, you can feel the clutch slip a bit. It does not grab the motor drive shaft solidly. There is some slip. It seems to run fine on the road though, with enough grab. The cylinder in in great shape since compression is still high enough to feel while trying to roll start the bike. You can get away with starting this bike in that manner because of its small size motor and light drive train.

[darrylri]

Alas, I really only know about BMWs. But the place for you to ask your question is a Yahoo email list called Kradrider, specializing in WWII German bikes and where there are a number of reenactors:

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/kradrider/

[HarleyCreation]

I knew Darryl would have some good advice.

Did you check for free-play in the clutch lever & cable and adjust if needed? On the Harley 125 (DKW copy) the clutch lever/cable adjustment is made via a turning screw & lock-nut setup on the engine sidecover.

On older Harley clutches there was an adjustment that tightened or increased clutch spring pressure to a certain spec. Your bike should have some adjustment like that too, but you'll either need a shop manual or somebody familiar with that bike.

You might try putting the bike in gear and with clutch cover off have somebody gently apply the kickstarter and try to determine that way what exactly is slipping. But I would make sure the clutch adjustments are properly within spec first. 1) Lever free-play 2) Clutch spring pressure.

Sorry we can't help you more, but probably at Kradrider they'll know something.

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Yes, the cable is not too taut. The clutch engages fully but it slips a little. The friction pads are made from cork, so it may be a simple case of old-tech inefficiency. I just have to take it a part and get a fresh look at it. I can figure it out okay, but the rarity of parts for this bike, should I need them, is very high in Europe and nonexistent here in the States. I think it could use a new clutch spring. A little more pressure on the plates is all it needs. Any of you guys have a Zundapp? I always wanted a wartime bike like that or a BMW R71. This one is okay for getting around, but you have to travel ultralight. I was thinking about buying a larger WWII German motorcycle, one that is pretty much complete and not a parts hunt. In the meantime, this little bike is a load of fun!

Thanks a bunch for trying to help out.

[darrylri]

You're probably thinking of the Zuendapp KS750, which is an OHV heavy sidecar bike like the BMW R75. (They share the same lockable, two wheel drive, final drive unit and hydraulic take off for the side car brake.) The Zuendapps have a great reputation for reliability.

The R71 is the bike that the Russians, the Chinese, and Harley all copied, and is a more lightly built bike with a sidevalve motor.

There's an old German ex-pat who brings his civilianized KS750 a lot of the AMCA meets around the LA area. There are also a number of Zuendapp afficionados on the Kradrider list.

You can get more Zuendapp info at: http://www.zundappfool.com/

(BTW, if you start hunting Zuendapp stuff in Germany, you'll want to spell it as I have here. They take the difference between a u and a ü seriously, and if you can't remember that the ü is made by holding the ALT key and typing 0252 on the keypad, then using ue instead works. Most German sites won't spell it Zundapp.)

[Chris Haynes]

Am I the only one that takes offence to the photo of the Nazi Storm Trooper?

[darrylri]

Am I the only one that takes offence to the photo of the Nazi Storm Trooper?

Actually, I suspect it's a photo of Darius during a reenactment. Like the black powder guys who go out and do the north/south thing.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

[Chris Haynes]

I think the re enactors should use live ammo. :-)

[exeric]

Let's keep this is a political free forum.

[HarleyCreation]

Yes, the cable is not too taut. The clutch engages fully but it slips a little. The friction pads are made from cork, so it may be a simple case of old-tech inefficiency. I just have to take it a part and get a fresh look at it. I can figure it out okay, but the rarity of parts for this bike, should I need them, is very high in Europe and nonexistent here in the States. I think it could use a new clutch spring. A little more pressure on the plates is all it needs. Any of you guys have a Zundapp? I always wanted a wartime bike like that or a BMW R71. This one is okay for getting around, but you have to travel ultralight. I was thinking about buying a larger WWII German motorcycle, one that is pretty much complete and not a parts hunt. In the meantime, this little bike is a load of fun!

Thanks a bunch for trying to help out.

Can you/have you tightened the clutch spring tension on the bike?

It looks like the Harley 125 uses coil springs. If your clutch does too finding heavier generic springs to fit shouldn't be too hard at a good machine shop or bearing supplier. Just think like a soldier on the Russian Front and improvise the part you need. You can bet a lot of that went on!

Another thought is that maybe a disk or two is missing, altho more likely it's a weak spring.

It's a long shot, but you might compare parts from your bike to the post-WWII Harley 125 (DKW copy) sometime just to see if anything is similar or might be adapted to work. Stuff like that has been done before.

No Zuendapp here, but 3 BMWs....

[HarleyCreation]

Thoughts on Lightweights

This little military DKW "Das Kleines Wunder" (The Little Wonder) is interesting in several respects. The notion of a lightweight goes goes back to the earliest philosophy expressed by some builders, including Indian and some others that a bike should be as light as possible. This was countered by Mitchell, another pioneer, that advocated instead a big heavy lugging machine. This debate taking place in 1901-04 before Harley-D started production (1905). Harley, rather wisely it turned out, adopted Mitchell's philosophy over Indian's and by 1909 the industry as a whole followed.

In military terms, a lightweight motorcycle like the DKW would have lots of advantages. Foremost the ability for one or two men to pick it up and carry over or maneuver it around obstacles much easier than a bigger solo bike or a sidecar rig.

So while a big BMW or Zuendapp might seem cooler today, there ought to be a water obstacle, barbed wire, or tank trap that re-enactors should have to negotiate with their bikes and where "The Little Wonder" could show its stuff!

Is there anything like that?

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

I think the re enactors should use live ammo. :-)

That's me and my MG-42 from a reenactment. I do use live ammo (at the MG range). We sometimes run into mud or other obstacles where pulling the DKW out is a lot easier than a heavy BMW pig. One can also lift the bike over a fence. It only weighs 119 pounds. I'll look into replacing the clutch spring.
Und Ich spreche Deutsch auch.

[darrylri]

Und Ich spreche Deutsch auch.

Probably better than I do! But I found it useful/necessary to have ein bischen deutsch when hunting parts for my bikes in Germany, so I took a couple classes at the local JC.