Project for the un-initiated novice and son...??

[ChiefTwoKicks]

Mr. Covington- I lived in Clarksville, Tenn. back in '68, during my enlistment in the US Army.
Here's my take... Almost any reliable runner, that is, a complete running bike, dependable yet not all stock or correct, a good starting place might be around $7-10K, depending on year and model. With things like valve jobs/ pistons, trans rebuilds, wheel hub/bearing rebuilds, carb improvements, etc. you could easily add another $2-5+ thousand dollars, depending on your budget. You could find a bike thats already been through the "works" from a previous owner, but you wouldn't have the experience or knowledge of doing all that work yourself. (or with your son).

Add a sidecar, and tack on another $3-5K. A sidecar is a bit of a novelty, I've built and rode one. Long term use with a sidecar is extremely taxing on a M/C for practical use, and will wear out your bike in short order. They are alot of fun, however !!

All in all, you could be looking at an investment of close to $20K+ for something really nice.
My recommendation would be find a low mileage, fairly stock panhead, or early shovelhead, '50-'68, pre-AMF Harley. A full dresser, not a chopper or bobber. An estate sale, or an auction. E-Bay as a last resort effort.
Be patient and selective in your efforts. Don't settle on something cheap. (cheap=needs work, in most cases). '58-'65 FL's are readily available, beware of high mileage bikes (unless documented engine/trans work). You'll find the old saying... 'you get what you pay for'... is a fair statement.

Remember this... the antique community isn't at all like the modern biker lifestyle. Its much more addicting, and certainly more financially demanding. But, once you've been bit, its hard to get the hook out of your mouth. yes, its a lifestyle that could take a lifetime.
Good Luck, C2K

[T. Cotten]

T. Cotton,
No, we sure dont. Just run of the mill tools...no tools to make additional tools.
Wm. Covington
Member #35521

"Run of the mill" would be great, William!

It took a lot to run a mill.

Otherwise, not only will you miss out on most of the fun,

You will pay a lot for a lot of tools you will only use once.

....Cotten

[slamiste]

Hi William,

I see you live in Western KY. I live around (not in) Champaign, IL. Depending on where you live, it is likely a +4 hour drive to Central Illinois. If you want to take a rode trip with your son one day I'd be pleased to host you both for a tour of the local antique motorcycle community. With-in a half hour's drive of my house you could get a look and over 30 neat old bikes including Harley J, V, U, W, E & F (Knuckleheads, Panheads and Shovelheads), Indian Chiefs and Scouts, British Triumphs and Ariels, Italian MotoGuzzi and others. This may help you narrow your search.

You'd be welcome to spend the night as doing it in one day would be tough. FYI - We're all affiliated with the OVC Chapter of the AMCA. If you'd like to contact me via email my address is slammer.indian47@gmail.com.

Steve Slaminko

[46EL]

If you have all the time in the world a JD or VL bare bones basketcase can be a nice affordable starting point.
But at 12 years old your son will probably be heading off to College before you ever finish the project.
Especially if you live out in the middle of nowhere. That is unless your 90 year old next door neighbor has a barn full of old flathead stuff he will sell you at scrap metal prices and he has a machine shop and the time to educate you on everything you need to know......... Don't get me wrong, JD's and VL's (forget 45's if you want a sidecar) are probably the best affordable buy for the money today WHEN it come to vintage H-D's. EXCEPT maybe for early 50's Panheads. At our last 2019 chopper style swap meet there was a 48 Pan for sale for 9 grand. It was (I hesitate to say "restored") black and shiny new chrome built using a repop frame with aftermarket cases. the springer was real but chrome and the fenders were old repop but pretty nice. Tanks were repop along with most everything else but it had a real trans, hollywood bars, crashbars and later police style solo seat. I think it could have been bought at the end of the day for 7500 bucks and that is probably what it is worth in parts. Buy it, ride it, then look for a set of 48 cases and sell the repop bottom end to a chopper guy to offset costs. Nice entry lever bike for less than 10K. Look for a set of tanks etc etc and improve on the bike while enjoying it. If you want something for AMCA Judging and that whole scenario triple the 7500 and plan on 2-3 years before you ever get it running. JUST MY OPINION, 46EL

[chuckthebeatertruck]

My partner in crime and I started a thread for exactly this type of question:

http://www.antiquemotorcycle.org/bbo...dson-Sportster


We are working our way through an ironhead sportster, but we designed the "series" for guys asking questions like you. We started at the beginning with how to come up with a project, where to find it, etc. Even though we are working on a harley, the same principles we talk about can be applied to many makes and models.

Similarly, while I'm going to the deeper end of the pool with the motor -- most of what we are doing doesn't require such a thing and very few special tools are needed. When they are needed, there are specialists readily available for less than you think, who will do the work if you just box up and ship them the parts. For example, Truett and Osborn can knock out full crank rebuilds for very little.


In terms of chapters -- they can be all over the place. My local chapter has had me on ignore for several years. I've called, emailed, tried contacting them through their website (which was still "invisible" as of last week). I pretty much try everytime one of the magazine articles gets me thinking I should be more active. My local chapter seems to think otherwise. At this stage, I figure after I tried 5 or 6 times over a few years that they could offer me a free lifetime chapter membership tomorrow and I'd tell them to stuff it. I shouldn't have to work this darn hard to even get someone to talk to me about the chapter -- let alone help me determine whether I want to join it (and whether they would want me as a member).

Meanwhile -- 100 miles north of me is one of the more active Chapters in the AMCA. I see those dudes, proudly wearing their Chapter shirts, at all sorts events across the midwest. Makes me jealous I'm too far away to attend meetings, etc. 200+ miles round trip for a meeting is just a bit too far.

My friends in other chapters remark how much they love their local meetings and club rides. Makes me jealous, but I also haven't gone out of my way to collect 7 or 8 AMCA friends in my area and take the time to start my own sub-chapter/chapter. So, my "complaint" is a very soft one and only meant to help you understand that sometimes the "national" message isn't the same as what you'll experience at the "local" level and vice versa. We are still a small, big club.

Point is, hang in there. I got to know most of my AMCA friends through attending swap meets over several years and through forums like this one. It takes time -- like all adult relationships.

[Rollo]

I think I would narrow your preferred choices down based on whatever criteria you feel most important and then educate yourself on what ever your end up deciding on. Education can save you a lot of time and money and streamline your progress once you have a bike. I can't stress educating yourself enough. There are a lot of "experts " out there and you will soon figure out who really knows what they are talking about and who is just gassing on to hear the sound of their own voice. Patience is a virtue in this world. Good luck to you and your son!

Tom (Rollo) Hardy
AMCA #12766

[pfindlay]

Steve Slocombe pointed out that there may be some non-Harley alternatives, if you're not firm on having an American bike. A 50s / 60s British bike, or a 60s / 70s Japanese bike, can sometimes be found for a pretty reasonable price - even in running condition. Many parts are available and often a seized up parts bike can be found for next to nothing. Maybe your son wouldn't mind an import.

The first bike I restored was a 1957 Triumph TRW - built for the Canadian military using an old design so it looked and felt older than it was. These bikes still do not have a have high value and are very simple to work on and ride. Choose something like a Honda CB90 and your son will be riding it around the farm himself. Or a Honda CB350, CB450, or four cylinder CB550? There are lots of bikes to consider.

[underwel]

I went through the same thing about 5 years ago. I am definitely no expert, but I can give you a few of my lessons learned. I bought a civilianized 45 flathead and did a complete rebuild. First and I think most important is get one with a Title and make sure it matches the VIN located on the engine (learned that one the hard way). Second, try to get something that runs. Complete engine rebuilds are expensive. Third, get something as complete as possible. The cost of all those little missing parts you need adds up fast, real fast. If you don't care about using all OEM parts, you can find anything on 45 restoration to build a WL/WLA.

[Skirted]

Can't emphasize enough the value of attending a national swap meet to look around and talk to people. The season is winding down now but check the AMCA website for schedules and a Chapter near you. Contact the Chapter and make connections locally if at all possible.
Like you I came here in my antique bike infancy and folks told me to attend a swap meet and join a chapter. I had done homework online on my own but actually meeting and talking to people with experience was a significant important step in making sure I bought the right bike. Since then I have seen others buy the wrong bike because they didn't get educated and it ends up being a bad experience for them.
Don't buy a basket case starting out. Those are for guys with a garage full of parts (or a friend with a garage full of parts) and years of knowledge in the hobby. Buy the best running bike you can afford and trust me, there will still be plenty of projects for you and your son to work on. Good for you wanting to get your son interested in the hobby.

[T. Cotten]

Can't emphasize enough the value of attending a national swap meet to look around and talk to people...

Or ANY international Meet, Folks!

The AMCA abandoned my region.

If you want to have a machine judged in a timely manner, better ante up for a trailer and expect to put thousands of miles upon it.

....Cotten

[WmC1911]

If you have all the time in the world a JD or VL bare bones basketcase can be a nice affordable starting point.
But at 12 years old your son will probably be heading off to College before you ever finish the project.
Especially if you live out in the middle of nowhere. That is unless your 90 year old next door neighbor has a barn full of old flathead stuff he will sell you at scrap metal prices and he has a machine shop and the time to educate you on everything you need to know......... Don't get me wrong, JD's and VL's (forget 45's if you want a sidecar) are probably the best affordable buy for the money today WHEN it come to vintage H-D's. EXCEPT maybe for early 50's Panheads. At our last 2019 chopper style swap meet there was a 48 Pan for sale for 9 grand. It was (I hesitate to say "restored") black and shiny new chrome built using a repop frame with aftermarket cases. the springer was real but chrome and the fenders were old repop but pretty nice. Tanks were repop along with most everything else but it had a real trans, hollywood bars, crashbars and later police style solo seat. I think it could have been bought at the end of the day for 7500 bucks and that is probably what it is worth in parts. Buy it, ride it, then look for a set of 48 cases and sell the repop bottom end to a chopper guy to offset costs. Nice entry lever bike for less than 10K. Look for a set of tanks etc etc and improve on the bike while enjoying it. If you want something for AMCA Judging and that whole scenario triple the 7500 and plan on 2-3 years before you ever get it running. JUST MY OPINION, 46EL

46EL,
many thanks for your input. I need all the advice I can get. I like the idea you suggested of buying an antique running bike that's not all original and just ride to acclimate my son & I to older bikes, while searching for original parts along the way. BRILLIANT!
I was getting too wrapped up in finding one that was all original from the starting gate.
I'm glad you replied!

Wm. Covington
Member #35521

[WmC1911]

Mr. Covington- I lived in Clarksville, Tenn. back in '68, during my enlistment in the US Army.
Here's my take... Almost any reliable runner, that is, a complete running bike, dependable yet not all stock or correct, a good starting place might be around $7-10K, depending on year and model. With things like valve jobs/ pistons, trans rebuilds, wheel hub/bearing rebuilds, carb improvements, etc. you could easily add another $2-5+ thousand dollars, depending on your budget. You could find a bike thats already been through the "works" from a previous owner, but you wouldn't have the experience or knowledge of doing all that work yourself. (or with your son).

Add a sidecar, and tack on another $3-5K. A sidecar is a bit of a novelty, I've built and rode one. Long term use with a sidecar is extremely taxing on a M/C for practical use, and will wear out your bike in short order. They are alot of fun, however !!

All in all, you could be looking at an investment of close to $20K+ for something really nice.
My recommendation would be find a low mileage, fairly stock panhead, or early shovelhead, '50-'68, pre-AMF Harley. A full dresser, not a chopper or bobber. An estate sale, or an auction. E-Bay as a last resort effort.
Be patient and selective in your efforts. Don't settle on something cheap. (cheap=needs work, in most cases). '58-'65 FL's are readily available, beware of high mileage bikes (unless documented engine/trans work). You'll find the old saying... 'you get what you pay for'... is a fair statement.

Remember this... the antique community isn't at all like the modern biker lifestyle. Its much more addicting, and certainly more financially demanding. But, once you've been bit, its hard to get the hook out of your mouth. yes, its a lifestyle that could take a lifetime.
Good Luck, C2K

ChiefTwoKicks,
Wow, love the detail in your reply. Many, many thanks for your time.

[T. Cotten]

....I was getting too wrapped up in finding one that was all original from the starting gate. ...

No problem if you've got 'cubic money', Willliam!

Otherwise,.. .. ..

(I dug up one of my '37 OHVs.
Literally.)

...Cotten
PS: My daughter was with me, and about Will's age at the time.

[WmC1911]

Hi William,

I see you live in Western KY. I live around (not in) Champaign, IL. Depending on where you live, it is likely a +4 hour drive to Central Illinois. If you want to take a rode trip with your son one day I'd be pleased to host you both for a tour of the local antique motorcycle community. With-in a half hour's drive of my house you could get a look and over 30 neat old bikes including Harley J, V, U, W, E & F (Knuckleheads, Panheads and Shovelheads), Indian Chiefs and Scouts, British Triumphs and Ariels, Italian MotoGuzzi and others. This may help you narrow your search.

You'd be welcome to spend the night as doing it in one day would be tough. FYI - We're all affiliated with the OVC Chapter of the AMCA. If you'd like to contact me via email my address is slammer.indian47@gmail.com.

Steve Slaminko

Great idea Steve, we would appreciate that very much. Our schedule is crazy because our small cattle farm only has me, wife, & kids doing all the chores...but, I'm interested enough to make it happen so thanks for the generous offer. My son & I may take you up on that!

Wm. Covington
Member #35521

[WmC1911]

I think I would narrow your preferred choices down based on whatever criteria you feel most important and then educate yourself on what ever your end up deciding on. Education can save you a lot of time and money and streamline your progress once you have a bike. I can't stress educating yourself enough. There are a lot of "experts " out there and you will soon figure out who really knows what they are talking about and who is just gassing on to hear the sound of their own voice. Patience is a virtue in this world. Good luck to you and your son!

Tom (Rollo) Hardy
AMCA #12766

Tom,
Thank you for your reply. I will definitely take your advice on educating ourselves as much as possible. Are there any references that you turn to that might help us to gain this knowledge and hopefully better prepare us for this investment? Books, articles, journals, etc? Anything I can get my hands on will definitely help better prepare me from making hasty, costly decisions.
Wm. Covington
Member #35521