27 J rear axle

[Martin Pettingell]

I am working my way through a '27 J rebuild.

When I dismantled the rear hub the bearing races were in very good shape but the bearings were just held against the outer race by the tension between the axle nuts.

I have attached a picture of the axle and the fittings as it came out of the hub

Looking at my parts book it seems like I may be missing the left and right thrust collars that fit inboard of the inner race and hold the bearings?

I have tried to find some images of the axle set up but haven't found anything that really helps me and I am never sure whether what I am looking at is a stock set up or some custom adaptation

I'd be grateful for any assistance on this - and if the thrust collars are indeed missing where I might find replacements?

Thanks

Martin in the UK

[Steve Swan]

Martin, this diagram is from the 1927 Rider's Handbook, it should be helpful. from my computer, if you click on the picture three times it will be easy to read. '27 has roller bearings held in retainers with shims to adjust side play. the set up you are showing is ball bearing...?

rear Hub 001.jpg.

[Martin Pettingell]

Thanks Steve.
My hub feels like it’s an original and I’m pretty sure it was made for ball bearings much like the front hub just larger.
It may have been swapped out for an earlier model at some stage or come like that originally.
My bike has been in the uk for almost all it’s life and export models may have had a different set up.
Martin

[Robert Luland]

Martin, I'm pretty sure that's a 21-22 rear axle assy. Bob L

[TechNoir]

I cant comment on whats right for a '27 but my '20 has ball races that are similar to that one.

John

[Steve Swan]

the good news is that 26-29 rear hubs are all the same, except of course 28-29 had heavy duty and standard rear hubs. i would have to look in parts books or my files, but i "think" 23-25 were same as 26-29 except 23-25 only has one Alemite grease fitting and 26-29 have two fittings. my caveat is i don't have my references in front of me, so i can be wrong.

[camsaure]

My 25 JD has rollers also and the owners manual agrees. I am not sure what singles or 45s had. My original hub was worn past rebuildable limits so I am using the only hub I found which is the later one with 2 grease zerks, otherwise all the guts were the same.

[Robert Luland]

The rollers started 1923.

[Martin Pettingell]

Thanks all. Since my original post I found reference to the change to rollers coming in 23 so it appears my rear hub has been changed for an earlier version at some point.
Unless I can find a complete later roller hub I plan on using what I have.
I’m still concerned that there may be missing parts. There is a similar hub for sale on e. Bay currently which clearly shows a coller in board of the race that is threaded onto the axle. There are no such parts on my set up and I am concerned about putting back into use in an incomplete bearing set up.
Any body out there able to put me right on that one way or the other?
Thanks again
Martin

[MMasa]

Martin
I have loads of wheels and hubs that would be correct. Email or pm me.
Mark Masa

[aumick10]

Martin,
I am somewhat a novice when it comes to early bikes, but have worked on loose ball bearings a number of times.
A loose ball bearing as you show in your pictures uses the threaded external adjustment to set the end play on your wheel bearings. The outer races are typically pressed into a fixed space (hub). This gives a fixed thrust face for the wheel hub.
The inner races are then put in place and they are held by a threaded fitting that can be moved inwards to adjust the preload on the bearings. A locknut on this is then used to hold the preload.

This system is typical for loose ball bearings and taper roller bearings. The head stem on your bike is set up the same way.The system works quite well if it is maintained and greased.

A roller bearing system does not use the rollers as a thrust face, (Normally). They have a predetermined space in which to "float" from end to end. The total end float is adjusted by thrust washers, and internal sleeves in the hub.
The early setup you have is quite serviceable, as long as you don't over tighten the bearings.
I like to set the wheel spinning, then tighten to threaded adjuster until the wheel doesn't turn freely (Not fully locked up), the back it off a bit. (45 to 90 degrees. Personal preference. Give the wheel a shake and if you cannot feel any play, you are close.
On high performance vehicles, there is a specification.)
If you assemble this with thick grease, it will still have some drag while hand spinning, but will turn freely after use.
Cheers,
Mick

[Steve Swan]

Thanks all. Since my original post I found reference to the change to rollers coming in 23 so it appears my rear hub has been changed for an earlier version at some point.
Unless I can find a complete later roller hub I plan on using what I have.
I’m still concerned that there may be missing parts. There is a similar hub for sale on e. Bay currently which clearly shows a coller in board of the race that is threaded onto the axle. There are no such parts on my set up and I am concerned about putting back into use in an incomplete bearing set up.
Any body out there able to put me right on that one way or the other?
Thanks again
Martin

Martin, i would encourage you if at all possible for you to obtain the correct rear hub from Mark. i realize the old mutt is into you, (as my '27 was into me!) and you've been so admirably working your way through issue after issue, it would be ever so much more admirable to get the correct year hub!

[Martin Pettingell]

Thanks Mark.
I’ll get in touch
Regards
Martin

[Martin Pettingell]

Steve,
If I can get the right hub I will certainly will go that route. I just was concerned that I would ever find a complete one in serviceable condition.
If Mark can help out on that then I will be more than happy.
As an aside I hope I will be able to post some pictures of the emerging build soon.
Up until now it had just been I pile of parts.

Regards
Martin

[Steve Swan]

Steve,
If I can get the right hub I will certainly will go that route. I just was concerned that I would ever find a complete one in serviceable condition.
If Mark can help out on that then I will be more than happy.
As an aside I hope I will be able to post some pictures of the emerging build soon.
Up until now it had just been I pile of parts.

Regards
Martin

Ha!! i can relate 100% to a pile 'o parts!!! looking forward to seeing some pics when you are ready!