Hacks... How Comfortable Are They?

[c.o.]

I wanted to throw this out there and see what comes back. Just how comfy are these sidecar rigs (interested particularly in feedback on the Harley LE) for the passenger? I'm sure set-up and what not is a factor so let's just say it's dialed right in..... Thanks in advance for any thoughts...

[sirhrmechanic]

I've ridden in well-set-up J and Pan sidecars.

Physically, they are quite comfortable, especially if the springing is in good shape (ie. the leaves are well-lubed, etc.)

Psychologically, I can't stand riding in a sidecar. It's simply un-nerving for someone used to riding a motorcycle (including a sidecar bike.)

My better half, who rides her own modern Harley (and a Topper Scooter) feels the same way. She won't ride in a sidecar, no matter how comfortable. Says it freaks her out.

I know some 'non-riders' who have gone in sidecars, though, and say it's a hoot. Maybe the experience is toughest for those who are used to being at the controls.

Cheers and happy winter. At least the days are getting longer.

Sirhr

[c.o.]

Thank-you for the reply Sirhr! I'm liking that feedback. I hadn't considered the psychological aspect.. I hear you about being in control!

The reason I ask is I would like to be able to bring my better half along on some of the old bike adventures. I will likely fire the buddy seat on the Pan and try that out first but I'm not so sure it will do the trick. My Mrs. has some fairly serious back issues and the last time I tried to take her along.... (comfy '72 FLH) it was a pretty painful experience. Anyway the hack is just waiting for me to do something with it and I figured it is probably worth a try. Lots of practice and then maybe throw the precious cargo in for a test run! If it doesn't work out I guess I'll have more room for spare parts, tools and camping gear!!!

Cheers back at ya! Happy Winter!!!

[Tommo]

Cory,
My wife loves riding in a chair. We've done several long trips including 4000 miles across the USA and she much prefers it to being a pillion. She quite often goes to sleep in there while we're riding along.
I agree with Sirhr in that the passenger has to have confidence in the rider and especially so in our US trip with the sidecar on the wrong side with all the traffic passing close to the sidecar.
Important comfort considerations are;
Springing and making sure any check straps don't take up with a snatching effect causing the body to buck hard against the strap.
Balance of the body. This means ensuring that the body, when loaded, has a slight nose up attitude when going down the road.
Windscreens. My wife doesn't like having a screen but if one is fitted its placement is extremely important.
It must be positioned so that any wind eddy that is formed happens behind the passengers back.
Even with factory windscreen set-ups you will need to experiment to find the right placement of the screen. Too far forward and you get very disturbed air in the passengers face and a very wet body when riding in the rain.
If it's far enough back to stop that but not totally far enough back the passenger gets a very cold back and kidneys from wind eddys and with rain running down their back in wet conditions.
We have a canoe style cover that the passengers steps into and is held in place around their waist with an elastic waist band. Once in the chair you clip the edges on to the sidecar body as you would a tonneau cover and this then keeps everything inside the chair very dry and the passenger is no worse off than if they were on a pillion, in fact they're probably better off as only the upper half of their body is subjected to the elements.
Finally make sure you fit some form of footrest inside the footwell so that the passenger can brace themselves in those situations that always seem to arise not matter how careful you are.
The only real downside to a sidecar is that being seated lower down than the rider Jennifer reckons she doesn't get to see as much of the scenery as she normally would when she rides pillion with me.
Hope this is the sort of feedback you wanted Cory and as far as sidecars are concerned you'll either love it or hate it and I really love them.

[bselph]

My wife has many thousand miles riding pillion and the only way she will ride in my sidecar is with a vodka tonic in one had and only 1st gear around the neighborhood. On the other hand, my daughter in law and grandson love riding in the sidecar.

[T. Cotten]

Well Folks,

I only road in one for a mile and a half, and that was enough for me,.. but then I won't get on a carnival ride either.
My daughter fell asleep in the "tub" on her first ride at six months of age, but by the time she was seven, she insisted upon riding 'two-up' behind me. As an adult, she admitted she hated the tub.

If by "pillion", you Folks mean a fender-mounted pad, I wouldn't do that to anyone.

....Cotten

[exeric]

My wife has many thousand miles riding pillion and the only way she will ride in my sidecar is with a vodka tonic in one had and only 1st gear around the neighborhood. On the other hand, my daughter in law and grandson love riding in the sidecar.

That is funny Bob. I love a sidecar outfit, but I'm with your wife when it comes to being a passenger. The picture is of my '51FL when it did sidecar duty. Cory, a sidecar will slow your bike down substantially, and is also hard on tires, and spokes but I still think they are worth it.

[D.A.Bagin]

I have a 48 Chief with sidecar. My mother at 80 loved to ride in it with her dog until she passed away. My daughter loves to this day riding in it. She started riding in it when she was 6 and is almost 30 now. My son never liked it. He would rather ride behind me when he was younger. Now he rides his own bike. I rode in my friends sidehack about 30 or so years ago. Never again!! It may be the control issue but I can tell you it was very un-nerving for me personally. Maybe being so close to the ground or looking at the edge of the road, curbs and mailboxes flying by I don't know. I have given people of all ages rides in it and it seems to me anyone that has had experience riding their own bike has an issue with getting in a sidecar. If they don't have bike experience they seem to love it.

[c.o.]

Cory,
My wife loves riding in a chair. We've done several long trips including 4000 miles across the USA and she much prefers it to being a pillion. She quite often goes to sleep in there while we're riding along.
I agree with Sirhr in that the passenger has to have confidence in the rider and especially so in our US trip with the sidecar on the wrong side with all the traffic passing close to the sidecar.
Important comfort considerations are;
Springing and making sure any check straps don't take up with a snatching effect causing the body to buck hard against the strap.
Balance of the body. This means ensuring that the body, when loaded, has a slight nose up attitude when going down the road.
Windscreens. My wife doesn't like having a screen but if one is fitted its placement is extremely important.
It must be positioned so that any wind eddy that is formed happens behind the passengers back.
Even with factory windscreen set-ups you will need to experiment to find the right placement of the screen. Too far forward and you get very disturbed air in the passengers face and a very wet body when riding in the rain.
If it's far enough back to stop that but not totally far enough back the passenger gets a very cold back and kidneys from wind eddys and with rain running down their back in wet conditions.
We have a canoe style cover that the passengers steps into and is held in place around their waist with an elastic waist band. Once in the chair you clip the edges on to the sidecar body as you would a tonneau cover and this then keeps everything inside the chair very dry and the passenger is no worse off than if they were on a pillion, in fact they're probably better off as only the upper half of their body is subjected to the elements.
Finally make sure you fit some form of footrest inside the footwell so that the passenger can brace themselves in those situations that always seem to arise not matter how careful you are.
The only real downside to a sidecar is that being seated lower down than the rider Jennifer reckons she doesn't get to see as much of the scenery as she normally would when she rides pillion with me.
Hope this is the sort of feedback you wanted Cory and as far as sidecars are concerned you'll either love it or hate it and I really love them.

Peter, that is far more feedback than I could have ever hoped for. Thank-you very much for taking the time to run through all those particulars. It certainly sounds like some tweaking is involved. That is fine, as I'm a step ahead now knowing where the tweaking will be! I look forward to taking on the project. Who knows, I could end up being a convert?

[c.o.]

My wife has many thousand miles riding pillion and the only way she will ride in my sidecar is with a vodka tonic in one had and only 1st gear around the neighborhood. On the other hand, my daughter in law and grandson love riding in the sidecar.

Do tell Bob, if you're forbidden to shift to second, do you take the opportunity to practice some riding tricks?

Well Folks,

I only road in one for a mile and a half, and that was enough for me,.. but then I won't get on a carnival ride either.
My daughter fell asleep in the "tub" on her first ride at six months of age, but by the time she was seven, she insisted upon riding 'two-up' behind me. As an adult, she admitted she hated the tub.

If by "pillion", you Folks mean a fender-mounted pad, I wouldn't do that to anyone.

....Cotten

Cotten, well my gal liked to go on the carnival rides before her back got messed up, so if I can get it riding smooth then this might be a go!

How about this one..... how about no pad on the fender??!!! I admittedly was humbled into doing so one late night many years ago. My BSA decided to call it quits about 70 miles from home at about eleven o'clock at night on the way home from a weekend run. After fighting with it for more than enough time, I admitted defeat and was lucky enough to be able to stash it at a good Samaritans place for the night. Nothing left to do now but go home and bring a pickup back to get it the next day. So on the back of a Yamaha chopper I got, right onto that solid flat black fender. With no foot rests to be had, I clung to the back with sheer will and arrived with a newly acquired accordion lope. I'm glad it was dark and everyone and their dog didn't have a video phone back then. All that's left now is a story. (Holy crap, did I just type this out loud?)

[QUOTE=exeric;146049]That is funny Bob. I love a sidecar outfit, but I'm with your wife when it comes to being a passenger. The picture is of my '51FL when it did sidecar duty. Cory, a sidecar will slow your bike down substantially, and is also hard on tires, and spokes but I still think they are worth it.

That photo is awesome Eric! That's a sweet set-up. Yeah, I wondered how much it would bog it down. I suppose gearing will be the next task.... Toying around with the idea of 3 and reverse. I suppose I should order tires now...

I have a 48 Chief with sidecar. My mother at 80 loved to ride in it with her dog until she passed away. My daughter loves to this day riding in it. She started riding in it when she was 6 and is almost 30 now. My son never liked it. He would rather ride behind me when he was younger. Now he rides his own bike. I rode in my friends sidehack about 30 or so years ago. Never again!! It may be the control issue but I can tell you it was very un-nerving for me personally. Maybe being so close to the ground or looking at the edge of the road, curbs and mailboxes flying by I don't know. I have given people of all ages rides in it and it seems to me anyone that has had experience riding their own bike has an issue with getting in a sidecar. If they don't have bike experience they seem to love it.

Thanks for relaying your experiences D.A. I'm hoping this little experiment doesn't incite fear!

[sirhrmechanic]

I will add that if you are going to take up sidecar riding for the first time after being a 'two wheel' rider forever... consider taking an AMCA course or similar. My first riding experiences with a sidecar were not good. I had a Dnepr with sidecar and never got comfortable with it. I lost control a couple of times (fortunately on my long driveway) and ended up in fields and tree-lines. I never got the hang of it.

I took a sidecar course two years ago near Boston. A few hours in a class learning theory and then onto the range. Within a half hour I was high-speed slaloming, flying the sidecar, slaloming while flying the sidecar... recovering from all manner of odd things by the end of the day. The class was utterly worth it!

The issues with the Dnepr MAY have simply been due to the fact that those bikes were not exactly the finest in engineering and technology. Mine was a 1990 bike... still made very much to Soviet standards. First time i started it, I cleaned a tablespoon of metal shavings out of the crankcase! But it never failed to start and had potential.

My current sidecar bike is a Springer Classic with a Liberty sidecar on it. Fully braked and set up by Liberty, including a re-raked front end for sidecar use and loaded neck bearings. It's a whole different world from the Dnepr.



A good Knuckle, Pan or Shovel, properly set up, should run just as perfectly as a sidecar can be. Then it comes to your comfort level and skill. And, back to my first point, a class REALLY helped me. I enjoy the Springer so much that I want a sidecar for my EL...

Cheers,

Sirhr

[D.A.Bagin]

I will add that if you are going to take up sidecar riding for the first time after being a 'two wheel' rider forever... consider taking an AMCA course or similar. My first riding experiences with a sidecar were not good. I had a Dnepr with sidecar and never got comfortable with it. I lost control a couple of times (fortunately on my long driveway) and ended up in fields and tree-lines. I never got the hang of it.

I took a sidecar course two years ago near Boston. A few hours in a class learning theory and then onto the range. Within a half hour I was high-speed slaloming, flying the sidecar, slaloming while flying the sidecar... recovering from all manner of odd things by the end of the day. The class was utterly worth it!

The issues with the Dnepr MAY have simply been due to the fact that those bikes were not exactly the finest in engineering and technology. Mine was a 1990 bike... still made very much to Soviet standards. First time i started it, I cleaned a tablespoon of metal shavings out of the crankcase! But it never failed to start and had potential.


My current sidecar bike is a Springer Classic with a Liberty sidecar on it. Fully braked and set up by Liberty, including a re-raked front end for sidecar use and loaded neck bearings. It's a whole different world from the Dnepr.



A good Knuckle, Pan or Shovel, properly set up, should run just as perfectly as a sidecar can be. Then it comes to your comfort level and skill. And, back to my first point, a class REALLY helped me. I enjoy the Springer so much that I want a sidecar for my EL...

Cheers,

Sirhr

I don't think they had classes back in the mid 80s when I got my sidecar rig. Combine 1st sidecar, 1st foot clutch-hand shift and 1st left hand throttle and the thrill was on. Took me about 2 weeks going in both directions around my dead-end block before I would even think about going out in NYC suburb traffic. I thought I had made the biggest mistake in my life. One nite I woke up with the instant thought, "Drive it like a stick shift car". Got on it the next day and within an hour had it down pretty good.

[Rubone]

My Wife, who is an avid rider and rides modern sport bikes along with our vintage stuff, loves to ride in my 44UL w/sc. She rode in it the first time in the late '80s shortly after we met and rode over 1000 miles her first time to an AMCA Road run. As said by others, it would lull her to sleep. I have only ridden it it twice in the nearly 40 years I have had it and both times was uncomfortable. But then I am not comfortable as a passenger in an automobile either...

[duffeycycles]

With a steering damper and adjustable trees the driver has more fun and safety.
I have taken many fine ladies in both HD and Goulding sidecar rides.They prefer the Goulding for the ride.
I preferred the HD to drive...the Goulding had standard trees and was dangerous to handle.
All of the ladies seem to go into a quiet mode ,some to sleep,after just a few miles.
My one friend has a very bad back.We hit a bumpy road and I was concerned.She said it felt great on her back!

[sirhrmechanic]

My Wife, who is an avid rider and rides modern sport bikes along with our vintage stuff, loves to ride in my 44UL w/sc. She rode in it the first time in the late '80s shortly after we met and rode over 1000 miles her first time to an AMCA Road run. As said by others, it would lull her to sleep. I have only ridden it it twice in the nearly 40 years I have had it and both times was uncomfortable. But then I am not comfortable as a passenger in an automobile either...

Rub... that is a most gorgeous machine. Wow. Just an amazing bike. Love to see some more pictures...

Cheers,

Sirhr