Attracting younger people

[BoschZEV]

So what's the point of this discussion about getting new members?

When having a conversation with a given person, it's always a judgment call as to when it's being productive, and when it's not. Personally, when I feel a particular conversation isn't going anywhere, I step away from it.

[exeric]

So what's the point of this discussion about getting new members? A forum, albeit contentious at times is a place to present, discuss, and debate ideas. This never-ending debate about growing AMCA membership seems to be more of a platform for testifying what A-holes older AMCA members are for not giving away their Knuckleheads, and kissing non-member ass. This is a member supported club and is suppose to cater to the general interests of it's members. I think the AMCA National does a good job of that, publishes 6 issues of a beautiful magazine, umbrellas national meets around the U.S. and one in Europe, and seems to run smoothly for the majority of members who only have contact via the 'Antique Motorcycle' magazine. If young people interested in old motorcycles can't see that, and the value of that; then it may be beyond any control.

[BoschZEV]

I would like to see a demonstration of how to cold sell a young, non member on the AMCA.

I've been around long enough to know better than try to teach old dogs new tricks. I'm sure an old dog could come up with any number of reasons why it's stupid for someone else to turn in a winning lottery ticket (would put them in a higher income tax bracket, relatives will ask for money, will start getting unsolicited sales calls, etc. etc.), so coming up with reasons why it's impossible to attract new members to the AMCA hardly would be a challenge.

[exeric]

Funny coincidence today. We had our seasonal air conditioner tune-up and the tech guy saw my bikes. He went into a long, often repetitious, disjointed rap about friend's motorcycles, and friends, friends, friends priceless motorcycles pulled out of abandoned buildings. I was very patient, said 'yup' a few times, and 'nope' a few times and hummed an old disco tune in my head while he talked, and talked, and talked. That has happened to me so many times because typically, this guy is not a 'listener' and probably would have hummed the same disco tune in his head if I tried to interject AMCA info. To have a meeting of the minds, you have to have 2 receptive minds - regardless of young, vis-a-vis old. So, I would like to see a demonstration of how to cold sell a young, non member on the AMCA.

[T. Cotten]

I'm too young for this club.

Although essentially out of business, I still get requests for tech info often, Folks.

So I link them here, even if they are not AMCA.

With meets few and far-flung from each other, prospects can hardly ante up to play with the good ol' boys, unless its virtual.

.....Cotten

[BoschZEV]

I don't mind a pedantic response to my posts ...

There's no reason to be insulting.

If more AMCA members would participate on this great forum,

Not wanting to subject themselves to insulting comments could be a factor in keeping some people from participating.

[exeric]

We still live in a (somewhat) free country so give it a try. I'm sure it will work for some people. In my time in the AMCA, and meeting strangers (via a vintage motorcycle as the lure) I have tried to encourage membership in the AMCA, and general acquaintanceship over a common interest. That has worked a few times. Usually the other person will listen for a moment then launches into a 'true' story about their uncle who has a 1955 Indian, made by Harley that will do 159 mph on the interstate. Oh yeah, and his uncle had an offer from a Japanese collector of a $180K. Sounds silly but that happens a lot with varying degrees of exaggeration. .

I don't mind a pedantic response to my posts as I often generalize and skip the details but when talking about a club like the AMCA, with thousands of members, from every walk of life, experience, and personality; generality is the only way to quantify it. If more AMCA members would participate on this great forum, we could get a lot more info on how members feel about this. But, that's a moot point, or should I say mute.

[Steve Swan]

there were jerks and cliques in the early 1980's when i was a young member. I know this from firsthand experience how i was treated by 3 different revered lifetime members, one surviving still surfing on a banana peel swirling the drain. Human nature does not change, idol worship never ceases, and denial is not a river in Egypt.

[BoschZEV]

That's not the world we live in.… I believe it is up to young, interested people to seek out knowledge for themselves, hence they should initiate the learning process

Our observations of the world we live in are different. Continuing not to do anything different to address the fact young people aren't joining the AMCA at a rate that is needed to sustain the club long term isn't going to solve the problem. Your "solution" would be to continue doing what we know very well does not work.

What you suggest is like getting ambushed by an aggressive insurance agent selling life insurance and that could also chase away a potential member.

That's not at all what I suggested. That's why I wrote "appropriate AMCA members who have the necessary personal skills."

You wrote:

which may explain why new, and old members are hesitant to mix.

But in your previous post you wrote:

As for old members talking down, or ignoring young members; I call B.S. There are no doubt grizzled old members that do that, but that's just a jerk, not typical of the overwhelming majority of older members that keep this great club running, and care about new members.

So, which is it, old members are hesitant to mix with new ones, or it's BS to say old members ignore new members?

My point isn't to pick apart your words, it's to say there are reasonable alternatives to try that might have a better chance of attracting younger members than continuing to do what the AMCA has done about this for years, i.e. essentially nothing. When you have a serious problem and one potential solution doesn't work, try another potential solution that has no obvious reason why it wouldn't work.

[exeric]

. If only 10% of the members actively looked for, sought out, and engaged with new people, it would make a significant difference.

That's not the world we live in. In my experience, people are shy, or hesitant to initiate a relationship with strangers, and people who do are initially suspect of ulterior motives, which may explain why new, and old members are hesitant to mix. Outgoing personalities don't understand that. As I have stated many times, you can't make someone love old motorcycles, or join the AMCA. I believe it is up to young, interested people to seek out knowledge for themselves, hence they should initiate the learning process (as personally uncomfortable as that may be for them). What you suggest is like getting ambushed by an aggressive insurance agent selling life insurance and that could also chase away a potential member.

[BoschZEV]

As for old members talking down, or ignoring young members; I call B.S. There are no doubt grizzled old members that do that, but that's just a jerk, not typical of the overwhelming majority of older members that keep this great club running, and care about new members.

That behavior is typical of every group of people who have known others in the group for years. It's comfortable to talk to people you already know, and uncomfortable to talk to people you don't already know. To say the AMCA is somehow different is to believe what you wish were true, not what is actually true. Luckily, it doesn't require everyone, or even a majority, to be friendly and accommodating. If only 10% of the members actively looked for, sought out, and engaged with new people, it would make a significant difference.

[exeric]

The major youth wave of new motorcyclist in the mid-1960s was largely due to biker movies, and anti-social bike gang behavior. A confluence of social change, new music, a devisive war, a red hot economy, etc, etc, etc. made riding motorcycles the perfect way to give society the finger. When I joined the AMCA in the '70s, the young people like myself were mostly the products of '60s culture and were quite different than the middle age old guard that carried the AMCA banners. Regardless of the age difference, everyone got along quite well because it was old motorcycles that we all loved. Keep in mind that in 1975 a 1947 Knucklehead was only 28 years old but looked antique. I don't know if you can say that about many of the bikes that are now considered antiques. Of course, that is a value judgement and times (with opinions) change but the marketplace says a '47 knuck is a lot more desirable than a '75 Yamaha. As it is now, rich people, and early birds got most of the good stuff and that leaves young people out in the cold. That is the reality. . . . Alternatives? I have no idea but youth has always met the challenge. As for old members talking down, or ignoring young members; I call B.S. There are no doubt grizzled old members that do that, but that's just a jerk, not typical of the overwhelming majority of older members that keep this great club running, and care about new members.

[BoschZEV]

Returning to the scene of the crime, i.e. the original subject of the thread, this past weekend I gave the after-dinner talk at the annual banquet of the Oregon Vintage Motorcyclists club. The room was a sea of approximately 80 grey heads, and one of the questions after my talk was about how to get younger people involved. It's not like this is the first time I've been asked such a question, so I've had years to think of a good answer. Despite that, I don't have a good answer.

To digress for a moment to a point made in someone else's post, some years ago my younger daughter and I had ridden our Ducatis to the top of a nearby mountain to have lunch. A grey-haired man left the restaurant at the same time we did and, on the walk to the parking lot, took it upon himself to mainsplain to my daughter how great motorcycles are, that she should learn to ride one herself, she shouldn't be afraid of them, etc. etc. etc. My daughter politely didn't say anything the entire time, but when we got to the two Ducatis and he realized she was a rider, not a passenger, he quietly slinked off to his car. There's no doubt he had the best of intentions but, as the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

If not paying any attention to potential young motorcyclists isn't the answer, but neither is unsolicited mainsplaining, what might be an answer, if only a partial answer? Some of you may know that I was co-curator of the Guggenheim's 'The Art of the Motorcycle" twenty-five years ago, as well as of Brisbane's Museum of Modern Art "The Motorcycle: Design, Art, Desire" two years ago. The former had 300,000 visitors in New York, and 2M in all four of the venues, and the latter had 110,000 despite being held in the middle of a global pandemic when travel between Australian states was prohibited most of the time, and the drawbridge to the outside world was totally pulled up. As shown in the next photograph, press clippings for just the New York venue filled 500 pages.

aNY_pressclippings.jpg

If readers of the countless publications represented by the clippings book weren't interested in motorcycles, the writers and editors of those newspapers and magazines wouldn't have written those stories. Perhaps more graphically, the next photograph shows the queue on opening day in Brisbane. Close inspection shows a uniform mix of men, women, boys and girls, with only a few glimpses of men with grey hair.

eAU_IMG_9267.jpg

Some of the posts in this thread say the younger generation isn't interested in motorcycles. However, as the photograph shows better than words can, that is demonstrably false. On our Cannonball stops in 2018, entire families turned out to see the circus that had arrived in town. The excitement of the young kids, and the interest of the spouses, many of whom likely weren't motorcyclists themselves, was palpable. The evening public lectures I've given on "The Art and Science of Motorcycles" have filled 500-person auditoriums with diverse crowds. Younger people are interested if motorcycles are presented to them in the right way. The "right way" doesn't only have to be exhibitions at major international museums, but it certainly has to be more than hoping random victims will wander onto a muddy fairground and spontaneously fall in love with motorcycles despite grizzled grey-haired old men either ignoring them, or talking down to them.

An example of what the AMCA could very easily do are scheduled tours of AMCA meets, with times and content advertised ahead of time in the local newspaper, Facebook, Instagram, etc., and conducted by appropriate AMCA members who have the necessary personal skills. The appropriate AMCA member isn't necessarily the person who knows the most about old motorcycles, it's the person who is best at communicating to an audience of interested non-motorcyclists.

[D.A.Bagin]

Boy, I never expected this thread I started back in 2015 to evolve into a popcorn eating entertainment center. I thought about throwing my 5 bucks, (Inflation) worth into it but it would take way too much time. I will say in the short version that it took a little bit of thick skin and determination to eventually get to know people but in the end it was worth it. This was in 89-91 when I first joined. I was in my mid 30s. Personally I don't give a rat's ass what people think of the junk I ride. I never had anyone try to or damage anything I have while at a meet. The only instance I had was at a 4 meet where someone was moving my 4 out of the way so he could get a picture of his buddy's bike for the magazine. I had a shitty kickstand and it was on sandy soil so it had a great possibility of laying over when he walked away. He won't do that again. I really don't understand that people figure they can just put their hands on your stuff anytime they want because of who they are. I have never witnessed or heard of some of the instances Chuck is referring to. I am not saying they didn't happen but I never have seen any of it.

[PRG]

As a hardened failed product of the Catholic school system where every child was left behind I’ll never qualify for a sensitivity award. On the other hand, as a former engineer my mantra was always, I am the solution. If I’d experienced confounding marginalization in any situation to the degree and frequency described here I’d be inclined to ask myself, maybe it’s me. From the gentility of 40 years in corporate board rooms and membership in the Porsche Club of America, among other similar experiences, it to took no time to grasp the gritty undercurrent of involvement in antique motorcycles. We ain’t sitting around fondling our faberge egg collection here while listening to opera, this endeavor attracts a bit more rugged crowd with behavioral patterns to suit which are are pretty much apart from any connection to age. I loathe the day the AMCA would officially adapt the dainty PCA expression of ‘it’s not about the cars, it’s the people.’ Ruefully, after 30 years of the AMCA it really has become about the people, it’s just most are too manly to admit it. I adapted to fit into this occasionally gruff arena, but it isn’t for everyone.