New Member from New Zealand

[MikeW]

Hi. After trawling the forum as a guest over the last year, and gaining some very useful information, I decided to do the right thing and join up. Hope I can put something back in at some stage. I am currently restoring what was a near basket case J Model Harley Davidson, in fact a 21F magneto model. The bike was rescued by an uncle - now deceased - from under a shelter belt of trees on a farm. He used to travel rural areas in the 1960s, repairing home appliances, and always kept his eyes out for abandoned machinery. He was one step ahead of the scrap metal merchants who were sending ship-loads of scrap steel to Japan at the time. When he became ill at an early age, he passed the bike, as well as the bones of a 23F and boxes of assorted rusty miscellaneous parts, over to me. I didn't do much with it in his lifetime but, over the last decade, and particularly in the last couple of years of partial retirement, some progress has been made. I will get it done for him!

A couple of pictures are attached. The 21F frame is on a makeshift stand, with a spare (L20T) crankcase and cylinder temporarily installed to check chain alignment. Steering head, gearbox, wheel hubs and main sheet metal parts are restored (though the primary chain guard is a repro). I'm waiting for spokes from Buchanan's so the wheel builder can drill and dimple the blank clincher rims before I paint them. The original motor is on the bench, having a trial fit after the cylinders came back from the nickel platers. The bottom end has been rebuilt. All the valve housings, seats and guides are now done, and the cylinders bored 020 oversize. Sharp eyed members may note some Competition Distributing parts, and that the inlet valve rockers have incorrect (for 1921) alemite grease fittings. They will be fixed. Though the condition of the bike was pretty dire, I was very fortunate that it was 95% complete. All the control rods, linkages etc are packed away in the shop cupboards.

A photo of the 23F "kitset" is also attached. The motor is seized but looks unmolested. The frame hasn't a number (the plate soldered under the tank is missing) but it has the reinforced steering head, the obvious join in the frame rails behind the seat, and the pre-24 muffler brackets. But it, and the rear fender, appear to be olive, rather than Brewster green. I can send some more photos later if anyone is interested.

So for now, thanks for letting me come aboard.

MikeW


Harley 4 006.jpgHarley 5 003.jpgHarley 4 002.jpg

[Chuck#1848]

Welcome Mike,

I am always interested in pictures of other peoples projects.

[hairynob24]

MikeW you have 2 great projects to play with there should heaps of parts in NZ and here in Oz ,good luck give us photos as you progress with the Js ,cheers Rob

[MMasa]

Mike
Very nice projects there. You know, olive green was still an optional color in 1922 and 1923 so it may be correct. That rear fender is either a 1923 or a 1924 but I can't see the areas that differentiate them in your picture. The differences are in the area just behind the battery box or mag model toolbox and also in the way that the front of the rear chain guard is attached. I can see in the picture that your front fork rear leg is correct for a 61" 1923 and that it has the "tacked on" external spring bracket attached to the headlamp mount. I can't see the front leg. Does it also have the external spring perch?
Does your gearbox have the letter "L" at the beginning on the pad above the filler? That would indicate that it's a 1923 box.
Yes, please post or email more pictures of both. I can't get enough Harley J model.

Out of curiosity, are you on the North or South island? Great country you folks have there. It's about the only other place on this planet that I would like to live. Looking for an excuse to come back.
Mark Masa

[MikeW]

Many thanks to all for the warm welcome.

Mark, by way of additional background, when I received the two bikes over 40 years ago, they were shipped to me in several packing cases. I was told that they consisted of a largely complete but very shabby 21F (with provenance), some major parts for a 23F, and random boxes of parts collected from several sources. The 21F had been disassembled for shipment, and its components mixed with the rest of the stock. The boxes were unpacked by me on arrival, and the contents moved around over several house moves, stored when we lived overseas, and then seriously sorted and "dry assembled" only in the last few years. I'm confident that the 21F is as authentic as can be achieved. But the 23 is definitely a mixed parts kitset. The photo of the 23F on the workshop floor was taken when I spread out the "leftovers", and roughly assembled them on the 23 frame, after pulling out all the 21F components.

In response to your very helpful comments and questions, a couple more photos which I already had on file are attached. The first shows the top rear frame rails, front of the rear fender, and top of the gearbox. The frame rail joins are obvious, as is the "crease" in the fender. (Interestingly, I discovered that I put "23/24?" in permanent marker on the fender some years ago.) I haven't a photo to show the fit of the rear chain guard but will check it out in the next day or two.

The gearbox situation is interesting. The box that came with the 21F is stamped J 5xxx. The box you can see on the 23 frame is stamped J 7xxx. Based on your advice that means it isn't a 23 gearbox - which doesn't surprise me. But that leaves a mystery. You can see that the gearbox cover bearing is not centred on its riveted base but is offset to the centre of the box. On the 1921 box, the bearing is offset to the outside of the box. The difference is shown in my 1917-23 parts book with the two bearing types illustrated. Before you set me straight on the gearbox serial numbers, I assumed that this difference corresponded with the difference between the 16-22 and 23 clutch hand levers - the 23 lever having a thicker bearing surface, and needing more space at the end of the clutch crank - which was also different for 23. Maybe its a later cover on an earlier box?

The second picture is a closer view of the motor, which appears to have a later push rod attached? Note the specially ventilated tank, which had a mouse nest in it.

In response to your other question, the front fork leg indeed has the tacked on supplementary spring plate, and the inner and outer springs.

You and I have corresponded in the past Mark. You sold me one of your superb clutch sprockets a few years ago, and we more recently discussed roller bearing hubs for the 23, which I think I have now sorted. I live in the lower North Island, about 40 miles north of Wellington (and about 55 miles south of "Tommo's" remarkable collection and museum, which I visited once). The two bikes and parts were collected mainly from farms in the Marlborough area at the top of the South Island.

Let me know when you plan to come over to NZ again.

I've got some more parts identification questions and photos, but I'll do the right thing and put them on the forum in the J Model Harley Section.

MikeW

Harley 4 003.jpgHarley 4 008.jpg

[MikeW]

At the risk of taking up too much forum cyberspace, I just recalled that I already had a couple of photos of the 1923 (or 24) rear fender, taken before I loosely attached it to the 23 frame. One shows the cut out for the rear chain guard, which as far as I can see is identical to the cut out on my 21 fender.

The other fender in the photos(at the front and on the left) is, I assume, a later 20s model, surplus to my requirements I added the white tape to highlight the join where it is apparently assembled in two parts. Can the fender be identified more precisely?

Harley Davidson parts 002.jpgHarley Davidson parts 003.jpg

[MMasa]

Mike
The fender with the longer flip section is a 1925 only rear.
A hard part to find being a one year only item.
Mark

[MMasa]

Mike

The fender on your 23 project is in fact a 1923 only item. The indent behind the battery box is the tell.
The J on the gearboxes indicates that they are both 1921. It's a simple letter code where E=1916, F=1917, G=1918 and so forth up through 1924. They switched to a new system in 1925.
On the gearbox lid, the crank that fits into the bushing is what was changed to accommodate the wider hand lever mounting hole.
Mark

[MikeW]

Thank you for the information Mark. Very helpful.

Mike