Sidecar question

[GSullivan]

I'd like to know if I can mount a sidecar on my 1977 Police Special with out changing my triple trees? I do have a line on a sidecar for a "reasonable" price but the trees seem to be hard to find. Thanks in advance for any info on this. George # 24919

[T. Cotten]

George!

I did it for a fellow with a '76 once.
Had to tighten the steering dampener with a Stillson wrench, but it was rideable.

....Cotten
PS: Hacks are the best investments on the market these days.

[GSullivan]

What do the adjustable trees do to the motorcycle? Could I add one of those dampeners to the front end?

[T. Cotten]

George!

The adjustable trees change the geometry significantly (to where I consider them unsafe to ride without the hack!)
Imagine the the fork raked a few degrees with no other correction.
With or without the special trees, a dampener is still critical.

....Cotten

[GSullivan]

Got it. Thanks for that info.

[Chris Haynes]

V-Twin has reproduction adjustable trees.

[Rubone]

A steering damper (not dampener!) increases the friction on the self centering ability of the fork without increasing the load on the bearings. With sidecar use the forks that normally self center cannot do so and the rider input is the steering control. With a sidecar the bike stays upright and the wheel points in the direction of the turn, very differently than a solo bike which actually countersteers due to gyroscopic effect.
The raked fork with stock rake frame creates a very increased amount of trail which helps the tire track true when constantly upright and makes the steering feel lighter to the operator.
Other considerations...
When accelerating the tendency of a rig is to pull to the right. When braking the tendency is to push to the left. A correctly set up sidecar brake helps with the latter, nothing changes the former. Basically the bike is accelerating faster than the sidecar and wants to turn around it.
When turning right the sidecar wants to come up in the air due to centrifugal force pushing it against the turning bike. Learn to keep your weight biased to the right on right hand turns. When turning left the bike wants to roll over the top of the sidecar, again due to centrifugal force, and the rear wheel can skid and lose traction in the turn if at speed. Bias your weight to the left.
Once you get the hang of it the fun begins, bu it can be scary and intimidating when new to it. Take your time and practice a lot!
Robbie

[exeric]

I agree about the steering damper. A sidecar rig is very hard to control without a tightened fork, and can go into a high speed wobble quite unpredictably. I've never quite understood the adjustable fork deal that H-D offered with the Hydra-Glide. I'm sure H-D engineers had a good reason for it, and I would never second guess them; however, motorcycles had sidecars going way back to the earliest days and none of those manufactures offered a sidecar fork. Excelsior had a reinforced military fork, but it was the same geometry as their standard fork. And, H-D never had a sidecar fork until they came out with the adjustable fork in 1950. I have an adjustable fork on my '51FL and it did a fine job with my sidecar, but I never noticed any difference with it adjusted in, or out for solo riding.

[sirhrmechanic]

This brings up an interesting question...

Can a steering damper be fitted to a 'modern' Harley Springer?? I am putting a sidecar on my 2006 Springer Classic (Libertysidecars.com) and they will be modifying the trees. However, I think some kind of steering damper would be helpful. All the vintage HD's I've ridden with sidecars on them have been damped. So it's probably important.

Anyone know of a modern damper or the ability to retrofit a vintage one?

BTW, I took the AMA Sidecar Course last year and it was time VERY well spent. I took one outside Boston, but they hold them around the country. I'd been riding sidecar bikes off and on for a while, but never really 'learned.'

Rubone... great descriptions, BTW.

Cheers,

Sirhr

[GSullivan]

I'm very thankful for the responses on my question. I will be gathering up the parts to do the job correctly. Not just installing a DAMPER. The sidecar can sit in my barn over the Winter. I'd rather do the job right. Thank you very much. George #24919

[sirhrmechanic]

And Gsullivan... I see you are on the Cape. I took the sidecar course offered down in Mass. I think it was out in the Natick area... near Boston certainly. Utterly great course. If you are interested, PM me and I'll see if I can dig up the contact info. They do courses several times a year and if you are going to take up riding a sidecar, it's worth attending. Let me know!

Cheers,

Sirhr

[Rubone]

Sirhr,
A modern type damper (hydraulic arm) can easily be adapted to use the SC. That is the normal means on all brands of modern bikes. And by fabricating simple brackets it is an easy bolt on, bolt off affair.

[Rubone]

I agree about the steering damper. A sidecar rig is very hard to control without a tightened fork, and can go into a high speed wobble quite unpredictably. I've never quite understood the adjustable fork deal that H-D offered with the Hydra-Glide. I'm sure H-D engineers had a good reason for it, and I would never second guess them; however, motorcycles had sidecars going way back to the earliest days and none of those manufactures offered a sidecar fork. Excelsior had a reinforced military fork, but it was the same geometry as their standard fork. And, H-D never had a sidecar fork until they came out with the adjustable fork in 1950. I have an adjustable fork on my '51FL and it did a fine job with my sidecar, but I never noticed any difference with it adjusted in, or out for solo riding.

Most early forks are leading axle type, so the relationship of rake to trail is already skewed in favor of a sidecar as far as handling goes. With the advent of the Hydra-Glide fork H-D discovered the ratio was no longer favorable, handling suffered, and the adjustable fork was designed to compensate. Note that it was used on all Servi-Cars afte the change in '58 to hydraulic forks also.
Other manufacturers did it as well such as BMW. It isn't something absolutely necessary, but it makes the handling much better, safer, and more enjoyable.

[duffeycycles]

I have seen Damper nightmares installed by "Pro's"- connected to the slider instead of the tree-this makes extreme side pulling when accelerating and the opposite pull when braking-very scary to ride

[exeric]

Good explanation of the adjustable fork Robbie; I figured you would know. I've ridden a few early spring fork sidecar rigs and you do have to stay alert. My '51 was actually rather pleasant to pilot because it was predictable, and tracked straight. . . Almost as boring as a car