Should everything work on judged bikes?

[Britluv]

The AMCA judging rules stipulate that bikes are REQUIRED to run, and be started to prove they run, before
being admitted to the judging arena.

How many of those bikes have WORKING speedometers, tachometers (when applicable) and lighting systems?

As all original equipment on street-legal bikes should be in order, should the Chapter Chief judge or his appointed assistant also be required to have the owner place the bike on its rear or center stand, start it, operate the lights, brake light, and horn, PLUS place the bike in first gear and rev it once or twice, to prove the speedometer and tachometer actually OPERATE?

The exceptions to this rule should be race bikes, bikes which came FROM THE FACTORY without rear or center stands, WITHOUT speedos, tachs, horns or lighting.

Just another thing to consider.

[jellywrestler]

in the case of gas lighting is it a safe thing to do and does the owner want residual chemicals in their equipment?

[jim d]

What would do with bikes that do not have a center or rear stand?
Jim D.

[Steve Slocombe]

This suggestion has been made before, with a proposal that we run Pebble Beach style judging with all bikes showing they are fully functional. It has been debated by the Judging Committee but not adopted. We found out a few years ago that the requirement for bikes to run had not been enforced, with machines turning up without fuel or batteries, and I was happy to see this judging rule enforced more rigorously. I'm OK where we are, but take this up again with Don Dzurick and the Judging Committee if you feel strongly. As always, it is easier to make changes from the inside, so join in the judging and speak to Don at one of our National Meets.

[Duda]

When I had my bike judged 3 years ago I did not have my speedo hooked up so that the odometer would not show mileage. Someone at the judging had 60 miles on his and he lost points.
Don is doing a great job as chief judge.

[servicardenise]

Why oh my yes.... Don is doing a great job, and I agree that it is important that we see the bikes run. It's unfair to judge a bike that sits in a building or trailer but does not run against bikes that run and are ridden vigorously. This is a sticky point for folks at times, however judges should see them run before they are put into the judging area. This is a safety issue as well and at Wauseon, we are going to be encouraging the owners to ride up to the membership/registration area. It is important also that our judging participants bring their paperwork in hand as well. The more documentation available the better to inform your judging team.
Denise

[Steve Slocombe]

Of course I don't think you should be docked points for having miles on your odometer, but this should have been taken up with the judges on the day. When I'm judging I try to make sure the owner is present, and run through the judging sheet with them after the judging and before the trophy presentation. Most owners know their bikes well and have hit the books before putting in a bike for judging. It helps to have read the Judging Handbook, and many owners also judge. At our recent European Meet there were a lot of preliminaries to get through, as Denise has mentioned. The day before, we usually check to make sure the bikes run, and initial the judging sheet accordingly. We also have to check the owners are current AMCA members, and have signed the disclaimer. The current status is sometimes incorrect in the database, so we need to be clear what the next judging award might be. Then we get new entries on the morning of judging day, sometimes with obscure makes, and sometimes with people joining the Club in order to have their bikes judged. A final problem in Europe is we have only meet per year, and you can't get Winners' Circle in fewer than three visits. As we believe the AMCA is a riding club, we have to agonise over stone chips and road film as second and third time entries lose some of their showroom freshness. It's lucky we judges are paid the big bucks for our service.

[frichie68]

In my opinion a "winner's circle" bike with zero miles on the odometer is not a motorcycle, it's nothing more than a museum piece. If I wanted an art object I'd collect urns or statues, they'd be just as useful.
Yeah, we all know about "opinions", everybody's got one.

[vph-d]

I'm under the impression that restored machines are supposed to appear as they did when they arrived at the dealer. If this is the case, a machine would only show 2/10ths or so on the odometer, not 600 miles. However, since riding the bike is encouraged, perhaps the mileage shown should be ignored, and only speedo condition judged.
VPH-D

[Sargehere]

I personally would like to see not only engines started, but lights switched on and horns honked on bikes going for the next level of Judging. Would have to be a bit replicable choreograpy, going down the line of entrants, somewhere near the entrance to the Judging Field. "One, two, three." Beep beep! "Next!"

[Britluv]

If a bike "lost points" ue to mileage on the odometer, something needs to be done with the JUDGE, not the bike.

If our goal is restored or original motorcycles that actually RUN and are RIDDEN, then this cannot be accepted as a criteria for judging. The judge or judges in question should be taken aside by the Chief judge and educated accordingly.

Any bike with zero miles on the odometer either has not been ridden or has a disconnercted or non-working speedometer, and either is unacceptable by AMCA judging rules.

AMCA member Les Joseph, who lived in the Chicago area, had a meticulously restored 1949 Harley panhead, probably a 98-point bike, which he often rode the 150 miles to Davenport. It was w "Winners Circle" bike for many years, yet was the only bike he owned and was ridden on any and all area club and charity rides. It NEVER failed any Winners Circle judging.
Bikes were built to be RIDDEN, and this one was.

As to whether the bike does not have a center or rear stand: what is to prevent two judges to lift the rear of the bike for a few moments as the rear wheel spins to see if the speedometer actually works? Alternatively, can the bike be leaned far enough on it's side stand to clear the rear wheel off the ground to determine the same thing?

Enough excuses! Does everything work, as the makers intended, or not?

[len dowe]

I thought that judges can't touch a bike.

[vph-d]

Judges are not allowed to touch a machine.
VPH-D

[motorpickle]

Our judging Committe has debated Concourse style judging where all functions are judged including tool kits and handbooks. We found this system to be cumbersome and time consuming. We have an "Honor" system where we assume all components on a motorcycle are opperational. I encourage judges to give Winners Circle bikes latitude in all areas. And no touching. Please feel free to contact me with any judging disputes you may have. I will try to monitor this forum in a timely fashion. Hope to see some of you in Rhinebeck. Later.....DonDz

[Britluv]

If the owner wants the bike judged, he should be asked if the judges can lift the rear of the bike to check if the speedometer works. If he refuses, don't judge the bike, assume he has something to hide.

Look, are these bikes supposed to be street-legal and functional for their time period OR NOT?
It has already been established in the rule requiring every bike to be judged MUST BE STARTED in front of a judge, so this
alone is proof the "Honor System" did not work.

NO, "Winners Circle" bikes SHOULD NOT be given latitude in all areas. This defeats the whole purpose of using them as
correct examples of their make, model and year as reference for other restorers. I thought this was the whole purpose of the classification.
If this permissive attitude is now the AMCA policy, why have any"Winners Circle" bikes at all?