What is the appeal of judging?

[JimLee]

I've been a member of the AMCA for quite a few years.
I'm a user, not a collector.
I'm curious why a guy would own a motorcycle, that he doesn't really ride?
I know you have to start them, and you might putt around your yard, or around the block, but, why would you own a motorcycle, just to have it judged.
I've sold a few lately, and know that most will never be ridden, let alone started.
This just goes against everything, that a motorcycle is all about.
So what is it about the judging process that has more appeal, than jumping on the bike, and taking it for a spin?
Jim

[fillibuster]

I've been a member of the AMCA for quite a few years.
I'm a user, not a collector.
I'm curious why a guy would own a motorcycle, that he doesn't really ride?
I know you have to start them, and you might putt around your yard, or around the block, but, why would you own a motorcycle, just to have it judged.
I've sold a few lately, and know that most will never be ridden, let alone started.
This just goes against everything, that a motorcycle is all about.
So what is it about the judging process that has more appeal, than jumping on the bike, and taking it for a spin?
Jim

Jim, I felt that way in '90, when I was less than 40. Did 450+ miles to Davenport many times, and road runs, on the 47 Chief. Now I'm closer to 60 than anything. It's still a pleasure to ride, long distances, even. But another goal beckons, of building a ride-able restoration. And those restored bikes are so very appealing to look at, sitting still, and in motion.
It's a high standard, and I'm not sure if I can cut it. I'll likely stop short of the completed project and just ride it without the speedo, so to speak. Might even leave it in primer. But the ultimate goal?.... maybe, maybe, baby.

[bobdo]

JimLee,
I admire you for asking the question. I sure can't answer it. I guess its just another example of how our society has changed.
One thing I find reassuring though, our chief judge rides the crap out of them.

[JimLee]

I'm not trying to start a fight, just understand.
I would say from what I read in the magazine, and see at the meet's, judging is a very important part of the AMCA.
I guess it's the same reason a guy keep's his first motorcycle, car, or gun.
I've never had that luxury, when time's were tough, "stuff" went down the road.
I have a 65, that was bought by a friend in 68, he "customized" it back in 1968.
Would I want to "restore" it back to original? No
Would it win any award's, No
I like it the way it is, the next owner can "restore" it if he want's.
Nothing I own is stock, they are a reflection of me.
Just because they wouldn't score very well, doesn't even enter my mind.
Jim

[Ross]

I've known Phil a long time and he has got it right.I ride the HELL out of my 47 Chief and 42 Harley but the teens stuff I like to build like the factory made them. Judging helps you to know you are on the right track.Having said that I have NEVER had a bike judged as I am known as the guy who dirties them up. I just took the 10 HD for a spin and it's covered in oil. WHAT A RUSH. To the point, the early ones ( now that to me is pre WW2) guys like to know they have it right...or.. it helps sales... U pick. As for post war.... Ride em... any way you can.

[c.o.]

I just took the 10 HD for a spin and it's covered in oil. WHAT A RUSH. .

What?????????

[Tom Lovejoy]

I think for some folks, that's the main fun of the hobie. Trying to git them as correct as possible, the search for those correct pieces. I know a few, who have had machines decades and never ridden them at all. For some it's all about gitting them correct and then knowing what they have and just admireing them I guess, to each their own. I have known one or two who have waited decades for the correct parts and not finding them - their machines stay unfinished, they refuse to put parts that are not correct on the machine! What ever makes you happy, I too like to ride em and none of mine are correct - just fun :-)

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear All, I agree there are some trailer queens in the Club, and some people put bikes through judging to try to increase the value. But judging and riding are not mutually exclusive. Several of the Cannonball Run bikes have been judged, and all my 1936 Harley 80 cubic inch flatheads will have been judged before going for their 100 mph speed run. You need to jump the 95 point hurdle a couple of times to get Winners' Circle, but after that the bike 'only' needs to maintain 85 points to stay there, and that's a lot of stone chips, scuffed paint, ground off footboards and fixings falling off. Look at Tom Payne's 1934 VL with maybe 70 Winners' Circle awards and still regularly ridden.

[fillibuster]

What?????????

Yeah, Ross, what'll the kids think?!!
..... thx for backin me up, btw

[bobdo]

Judging is important to the club, as it should be. My favorite saying of my Dad's is, "it takes all kinds of people to make up this world". The club will always be made up of all kinds, people & bikes. I believe in riding bikes. I've got one old bike, a 47EL. I built it the hard way one piece at a time. First, back in the '70's from whatever parts I could find, all different years. Then when I joined the AMCA I thought I should "get it right". I spent 30 years buying selling & trading parts. I regret not riding it all those years, seems really silly now. I'm not even going to have it judged because I made conscious decisions to stray from "correct" in a few areas because I wanted it to be my bike & not the factory's. I plan on putting a lot of miles on it. Some people might like it, the purists might hate it, I don't care. Seems to me most people who bought a new bike from the dealer, no matter what decade, personalized it. I just did it all at once.

[fabercycle]

Jimlee,

Good topic for conversation.
I think the best thing about antique motorcycles IS the fact that it means different things to different people, and for some the philosophy changes over time. Alot of guys who get older and can't ride so much anymore, can still enjoy restoring a bike for points, it's good therapy, and gives you an interest to keep you going. From a financial aspect, the closer to "correct" a bike is, the more resale value it has, for the day you eventually sell it. I've never had a bike judged, but I'm glad that the club spends the time to keep it going, cuz some day I may take advantage of it.

Antique bikes are both a sport, and a hobby. Some people complete high speed runs, or land speed records, some roadrace or flat track, or engage in coast to coast competitions, or vintage motocross, and trials events. Some people restore them, and keep them, some sell them, some get them judged.

All of those uses are good for antique motorcycling, and keep strong interest in the sport/hobby.

[exeric]

Tom, I think your view of the "antique motorcycle" hobby is spot-on.

[c.o.]

I think you nailed it Tom.

[Susanne]

My thought has been this - this from the old car side, not (yet) the old bike side...

Build them so they run, and are "mostly" correct. Drive (OK, ride) them, and keep working on it. Someday you'll have a 95 point rider that you KNOW runs. It may not be a museum piece and a 100.1 point vehicle, but you know it will do what it was meant to do - get you from point a to point b.

I remember one concours that implemented a rule that the vehicle had to be started and run to be judged, and driven under its own power to collect an award. If it didn't, then it didn't qualify... and I've seen vehicles that were otherwise 100 point vehicles not get "best in class" or "best in show" because they were 100% perfect, down to the cotter pins and valve stem valves, but wouldn't start or run well enough to get from the field to the stage and back... one of which died and would not restart (not for lack of fuel, BTW) 100 feet from the dias. Pretty embarassing.

To me - while a fully restored trailer queen which is dying from Museum rot and won't run for whatever reason isn't a faithful representation of the way the car (or bike) came off the assembly line. Because they had to run to be sold. And driven.

They were built and engineered to run, not to sit. While they sure are cool with 143 miles on the ticker, in original paint and factory decals on the motor, frame, etc., (and if I had one I'd be tempted to museum rot it muself, honestly)... where's the joy in just sitting and looking at it, kinda like that '09 Rolls on Mr. Selfridge last night... Beautiful workmanship, but it's not built to sit, it's meant to RUN... just like these bikes.

One other thing... you have a perfect trailer queen car. You find this amazingly cool aftermarket turn signal for the car - right year and everything, NOS for darn near nothing - heck, even the nickel plate is perfect. Or (like my bike) you have a magneto Harley that someone adapted electric lighting to or (my old car) a vehicle built in 1915 that has accessories up until about 1924 on it. Again, era correct. But to be a "pure" 100 point car, don't you dare put that on. To me - that's just not fun.

So I say... Build it to ride first, to win shows second, but don't let #2 ever stop you from #1!

[36 knuck man]

Thought I would put my 2 cents in here. I also am more interested in riding my bikes instead of having them judged. That being said, I do have an org paint 65 pan that I have had judged twice hoping to at least own one winners circle bike. The 1st time out was a jr 1st, so I was pleased. I thought just correct the gigs and no problem next time a senior, right? WRONG big time. It seams that different judges have different opinions. I know 65 pans as well as ANYONE, I have owned more than 10 of them. Some things that were docked, I know for a fact are correct, ie; no battery cover, it was an optiion, spotlite switch on the handle bars, which is correct, however was docked. So you can see my frustration, dont get me wrong, I admire and respect the judges, I know a lot of time and effort is put into it and I appalude those who do it. I guess all I am trying to say is, when a bike is judged and the gigs are corrected for the next time, the bike should move up, not stand still or go down, thanks for listening, Larry