Generator Frames

[bmh]

In looking at my parts book with regard to H-D non-radio generators I notice two frames in use.

30090-32(1504-32) Frame --1932 to 1948--all twins
30093-49(1504-49) Frame --1949 to 1957--all twins

What is the difference between the two? Will they interchange? The generator model changed to 52 from 32 in naturally 52 and the brush holders and field coil changed at that point also, but not the frame. Though it seems to me that the 52 's had their ID info stamped into the frame rather than the riveted on tag, or was that later in 58? Aside from the ID tag are there any visual differences between the 32 & 52 generators? Thanks in advance.

[Perry Ruiter]

In looking at my parts book with regard to H-D non-radio generators I notice two frames in use.

30090-32(1504-32) Frame --1932 to 1948--all twins
30093-49(1504-49) Frame --1949 to 1957--all twins

What is the difference between the two? Will they interchange? The generator model changed to 52 from 32 in naturally 52 and the brush holders and field coil changed at that point also, but not the frame. Though it seems to me that the 52 's had their ID info stamped into the frame rather than the riveted on tag, or was that later in 58? Aside from the ID tag are there any visual differences between the 32 & 52 generators? Thanks in advance.

The obvious change in those years was the switch from the felt seal to a modern seal. This changed the frame, no longer is the felt retainer riveted in place, but given the seal had a -46 number (and appears in parts books prior to 49) I had assumed this change to the frame happened around 46 as well, but you're right, the two frames are -32 and -49. Even prior to the seal change there are a number of variants in the frame. VLs being round, 37 having a machined notch and finally the cast recess happening.

The early model 52s still used a tag. The info stamped into the body started around 54 or 55. The only visual difference would be flat head pole shoe screws versus domed head screws, but I think the later 32Es also had flat head pole screws.

The question that I've always wondered about with these generators is what is the difference between the 1647-32 and 1647-48 brush end bearing housing ... Perry

[bmh]

The question that I've always wondered about with these generators is what is the difference between the 1647-32 and 1647-48 brush end bearing housing ... Perry

I hadn't gotten far enough to see that one yet. My guess would be that the bearing changed in 49, from 1644-18 to 9005 . And in looking that up I notice a 1647-49 listed in the part number cross reference that I can't find in any of my parts books but it would most certainly be another bearing housing.Wonder what that was about? It was gone by the begining of 54 when my book was printed.

Funny thing is a few years back none of this would've mattered as all I needed was for one of these things to do was put electricity into motion.

[Perry Ruiter]

I hadn't gotten far enough to see that one yet. My guess would be that the bearing changed in 49, from 1644-18 to 9005 . And in looking that up I notice a 1647-49 listed in the part number cross reference that I can't find in any of my parts books but it would most certainly be another bearing housing.Wonder what that was about? It was gone by the begining of 54 when my book was printed.

Funny thing is a few years back none of this would've mattered as all I needed was for one of these things to do was put electricity into motion.

As far as I know 1644-18 and 9005 are the same bearing, a 201. The 1647-49 bearing housing is used on fan cooled generators and is full of holes to permit air flow. It's used all the way up thru 64. New number is 31010-49 ... Perry

[bmh]

As far as I know 1644-18 and 9005 are the same bearing, a 201. The 1647-49 bearing housing is used on fan cooled generators and is full of holes to permit air flow. It's used all the way up thru 64. New number is 31010-49 ... Perry

Curious, the numbers don't cross reference each-other. 1644-18 comes up as 31009-18 and the 9005 is a 51 and later number. Both are listed one under the other in my 54 book. As for the other, I didn't look to close under fan cooled generators I guess. As always thanks for your help. Guess As long as I have the right tag on my model 32 all will be well.

[Rubone]

OK guys, a little clarification! The bearing in question is a 9007, not a 9005. The 9005 is for the brush end. Fits in the "left frame " as it is called and is unchanged from 32. The "Frame" is the other end and the part # changed in '49. The only other part that is associated with it that changed in '49 is the bearing # 1644-30 (31009-30) to the 9007. I may have to dig through a pile of old generators to see if I have an early one to see if I can tell any difference. Do we know for sure when the machined relief was changed to the different casting?
I am looking at parts books for '48,'49,'50,'51, a '52 supplement and '54. No surprises comparing them!
Robbie

[Perry Ruiter]

OK guys, a little clarification! The bearing in question is a 9007, not a 9005. The 9005 is for the brush end.

Yeah that's right. We were talking about the brush end bearing not the drive end (even though the subject of the thread is Generator Frames). I had asked what the difference was between 1647-32 and 1647-48 which is the commutator end bearing support and bmh postulated that it might have to do with bearing 9005 coming into use. That's how we ended up where we are ... Perry

[Rubone]

Perry,
What about the drain hole in the side of the frame? It doesn't show up on the early ones. And the shim, even though it has a -45 part number, shows it to be used from '48 on. Just more questions to ponder.
Robbie

[bmh]

Rub, I take it you are referring to the steel shim not the paper ones. I believe originally that was only used on 32E2 police radio generators from 45-47 which used a different drive gear assembly. The increase in drive gear diameter doesn't appear to be used on civilian production until 48 and later. My best guess on this is that they started using the same tooling set up to cut both gears instead of a different one for each. Now that we brought up the subject of the paper shims, was there ever a part number for them?
As for the drain hole being the reason for the frames number being changed, I considered that for a while. I too do not know when that was added but it doesn't seem like the type of thing that would have received a new part number. Heck, the diameter of the drive gear was increased by 0.022" and it didn't get a new number. lately I've been beginning to wonder if H-D made their own generators or if they purchased them complete from an outside vendor and interpolated their part numbers from the source vendors data? Another thing I've noticed in looking at the generator I think I will use on my 51 EL is that it has vinyl covered lead wires inside, would've expected cloth covered wires. Any Ideas when that started? This may not actually be a model 32 generator now that I start looking. I picked it up at Oley a few years ago and the tag is missing, could be an early 52 as it has place for the tag. That was the reason for the original question. Suppose I really won't know the answer to that till I tear it apart. That won't happen for a while at least as I have a very small shop and am currently in the midst of some frame straightening work and will not have any space for other work until that is finished and all that equipment put away.

[Chris Haynes]

Nobody has mentioned the change in the frame that took place in 1937.

[bmh]

Nobody has mentioned the change in the frame that took place in 1937.

Well now that you have, any ideas on what that one was? Parts book states the 30090 -32 frame was used 32-48.

[Chris Haynes]

When the 1937 U models appeared there was a clearance issue. This was fixed by grinding a flat spot on the frame. All 1938 and later 32 E's had this flat spot manufactured in the frame.
Notice the flat spot on the frame on the left and the completely round one on the right.

[Rubone]

Chris, that was in Perry's first post.
Robbie

[Perry Ruiter]

Perry,
What about the drain hole in the side of the frame? It doesn't show up on the early ones. And the shim, even though it has a -45 part number, shows it to be used from '48 on. Just more questions to ponder.
Robbie

I think all the 32Es had the drain hole. All the round bodies I have kicking around have it and two of the three 30-31 VL generator bodies I have here have it implying it came into use prior to the 32E. I know I've seen some generators with the hole plugged that were from military 45s. Not sure what's up with that. The XA body has the drain hole rotated about 90 degrees since it mounts the generator rotated versus the conventional twin mounting. This was enough to get the XA generator frame it's own part number ... Perry

[Chris Haynes]

Chris, that was in Perry's first post.
Robbie

I missed it.