Is this forum fair to Businesses ?

[LarryHeil]

I do not agree with this forum allowing some difficult customers to make damaging comments to the whole membership. There are some people out there who us small shops cannot please do matter what we do. They are never happy with the price, they want perfection which cannot be delivered at a reasonable price, due to the natural materials that have to be used. This just shows one side of the story. Please take into consideration the hundreds of satisfied customers who never bother to post to this forum telling of their good experiences and good products delivered.

[jmanjeff]

he should have the wright to post that he is unhappy with your shop just as much as some one can post that they are pleased with someones work as i have done before. The good thing is you can replay with your side of the store and the members can see for them self's.

[Chris Haynes]

There are some people out there who us small shops cannot please do matter what we do. They are never happy with the price, they want perfection which cannot be delivered at a reasonable price, due to the natural materials that have to be used.

If I am paying somebody my hard earned money to do a job you bet your ass that I would expect perfection.
In looking at the photos of the shoddy work your shop did I would suggest that if your not gonna do the job right you should shut down your business and leave the work to the craftsmen who can and will do it correctly.

[fabercycle]

I agree with Larry.

It's one thing, to be notified of a "chop shop" selling stolen parts, or a guy taking money, and providing NO parts or services.....but this specific topic in the AMCAs forum, is a troublemaker waiting to happen.

Most "rank and file" members of the AMCA, have no idea how hard it is for a company, in this business, to please the public, and, as Larry stated, people unfairly jump on the bandwagon, to badmouth a dissappointment, and rarely compliment a job well done.

Several years ago, I was "badmouthed" by a customer on another forum, for an ebay sale. I have had over 8500 deals, on ebay, and only one negative EVER. I challenge any one to try to maintain that kind of record with their customers. Was that a fair depiction of my business dealings?? Sorry, but some people cannot be made happy.

Howard has been around for as long as I can remember, (over 25+ years) and has made thousands of people happy over the years.

I'm sure that people that have been around for a while, realize what this really is.

[LarryHeil]

Satisfied customers do not Post here?

My father (and I) have made 3965 seats ! (saddles) since 1980. I can count the number of dissatisfied customers on one hand. Many happy customers have phoned us or sent email expressing there satisfaction with our work. However, as far as I know, not ONE has posted to this forum expressing their positive feelings about this.
This does not seem to be a fair representaion of what the "truth" is about our customer's experience.

[KDR]

I also agree with Larry.

The internet has made it too easy for someone to just flame a company or person for whatever pissed them off at the moment. I too have had to defend myself because the individual in one case had no experience with a Harley, let alone one that was 70 years old. It was his first and because he had a bunch of books laying in front of him, made him the leading expert on his model......in his mind.

I sell 100's of our parts on a monthly basis, not once have I ever intentionally meant to sell someone a bad or defective part. That said, it does happen, but I've always stood behind the part with my warranty. I sell to restorers all over the globe and if there was an issue with one of our parts, I guarantee they would say something straight away.

We do batches and by that I mean usually less than 200 parts per run. This leaves the door wide open for mistakes, either due to a new machinist or engineer. Now my problem is, I can't supply enough parts and our people are getting rushed and mistakes could happen.

I don't think anyone in this business deliberately sets out to screw someone over. The community is too small and there's a lot at stake for the small business owner. Word of mouth is everything. If you have an issue with a business, deal directly with them, I'm sure the misunderstanding can be fixed.

Things I run into are the "cheap" people. They cry an moan how they don't have the money to do the job right and will take whatever you can do for them to get the job done.....then complain when it's not up to their original expectations because they forgot to lower their standards when they bartered for the "whatever it takes" clause. Usually when the conversation reaches the "I don't have that kinda money" point, I ask they go elsewhere because 9 times outta 10 you'll be married to the bike and/or defending yourself on a worldwide forum.

I think these vendor rating forums are wrong because not every day is a perfect day no matter how hard we try.

Kurt

[Chris Haynes]

Kurt,
Did you look at the photos of the shoddy workmanship on that seat?

[KDR]

Yes I did.....but......maybe I'm reading between the lines too much or maybe totally off base altogether.......it sounds like to have done the job correctly, it would have been quite an expense. I (again my interpretation).....understood the customer wanted to have so much done ($ wise) and (again my interpretation) the shop did what they could to appease the customer.

I think the seat thing can be worked out, but the owner of the seat needs to communicate with the shop a little better from what I've read. I know when someone starts in on me for whatever (business or personal), I get real defensive and the communication lines stop.

[mmoore]

this forum is going to be a problem in the future. we always need to remember that there are 2 sides to every story. myself I dont let anything sway me until many different complaints show up. as some people are difficult to work with. also unless you have personal experence with the vendor that is in question you should keep your yap shut and dont jump on any bandwagon as what you post here may make you look stupid down the road. if you are wanting more info ask them to clarify or explain better. but reserve your judgment until we know all the facts. do not assume that this is defending either one at this point as they BOTH need to resolve this. I hope that they will also post when(if) it gets resolved

[Paps]

I am very impressed by the replies dealing with this topic. I totally agree. I personally, have refrained from crusifying any particuliar vendor, ebay seller, or service. Not that there are not a few on my list deserving it though. On the other hand, I do not hesitate to commend quality customer service, quality parts vendors, top knotch ebay sellers, artist and craftsman, and quality mechanics/workmanship. All of the previous mentioned deserve such mention. This alone, sorts out the good from the bad. Paps

[jww]

Larry,
I have lurked around on this forum since its beginning. The quality and integrity of your fathers workmanship has been referred to and recommended countless times on this forum.
I own a service business so i make this statement first hand. "My reputation can only take me so far. I must provide quality and integrity every day. One "oh Shizt" erases ten thousand "attah boys".
Its hard for me to imagine this being an issue of quality controlled by budget. If so your business practices have deviated from your fathers. My dealings with Howard have always been quality and accuracy first.
Johnny Whitsett
AMCA # 8626

[T. Cotten]

The first thing that comes to my mind if asked "Is this forum fair to businesses" is NO: bad customers are not given equal attention!

Vendors are crucial to vintage motorcycling, yet their collective welfare is ignored when a "Stiffs List" is forbidden.

....Cotten

[jww]

Most of the discussion on the "vendors rating" section of this forum has been nothing but praise, satisfaction and customer induced advertizing for vendors. I take pride in paying my bills promptly, so is the "stiff list" going to include my being identified as a "preferred" customer? Owning a business with typical 6 digit recievables, I feel your pain Tom. I suggest this forum should maintain a positive projection of our club. The disputes should be handled just as they were initiated, man to man. I cannot order your products on this forum, so I should not be allowed to complain about them on this forum. The threat of public scrutiny has no ill effect on a businessman who conveys integrity and ethics every day. The threat of public scrutiny also has no ill effect on a crook who has no intentions of paying his bill.
Just an opinion
Johnny Whitsett

[Ohio-Rider]

Whether, this forum is fair or not to vendors is simply a matter of personal opinion. I haven’t met very many of the members who post here regularly, yet I feel that I know each of them pretty well by the way they communicate their thoughts here. So when someone posts a negative feed back here, the first thing I do is to consider who is making the claim.

I was taught that the squeaky wheel doesn’t always get the grease. Sometimes it just gets replaced. -Steve

[Paps]

Fasinating !!!!! I'm enlightened by the excellent wisdom you Bros put forth ! all the replies make sense ! Paps