Reviewing judge's decision

[Coolbreeze]

In his 8/26/07 response to Sportster Jerry's post about treating holes in an original paint bike, Pete Reeves suggested, "Alternatively you could ask Kevin to revue [sic] the deduction made."

In November of 2007, I followed that advice and sent a letter to Kevin Valentine asking for clarification of several items, including why 2 points were deducted for the front fender of my restored H-D '56 KHK. The comments on the judge's sheet said simply, "early fender ?"

I put together a packet of resource materials that showed why the front fender (especially, the braces) were correct for my motorcycle. I then mailed the letter and packet of materials to Mr. Valentine. Over 6 months have passed and I have heard nothing from him or from anyone else with the AMCA.

Exhibiters like me rely on judges to help us determine what remains to be done on our motorcycles. If the judge's sheet is not clear or is wrong AND if no one at AMCA will respond to an inquiry/request like mine, then judging has very little value. It is also disconcerting when the Chief Judge will not extend the courtesy of a response to a member's letter.

Will someone tell me what a member can do when he is ignored by the AMCA on an important issue such as what may be incorrect about his motorcycle?

[jww]

Coolbreeze,
I don't know all of the circumstances as they relate to your inquiry, but hang in there. Kevin watches this forum and is very helpful as his time allows. Maybe he did not recieve the letter? Try again?

[kval]

reviewing judge's decision

coolbreeze
I have looked in my files, I cannot find a letter from you. if you could try sending it again, I will look at everything. please include your AMCA number, serial number for the bike and what meet it was judged at.
sorry for the problem, but sometimes the mail person changes and the new person delivers mail around the corner, and that person does not always bring it back to me(about 10 houses away)
Kevin

[Coolbreeze]

Copy of my letter with attachments is on its way.

I am assemblying a copy of the packet of information I sent earlier. It should be in the mail tomorrow. Please let me know if it doesn't arrive within a week.

[kval]

George
I received your packet today, needless to say it got my attention when it comes from a lawyer. I will be out of town for two weeks, but it looks like you have proven your points.
while I am at the Rhinebeck meet I will meet with some Harley judges and correct your score. If you are correct(which you probably are) I will change your score and mail you a corrected judging sheet to replace the one you have.
sorry for the delay
Kevin

[kval]

George
see me at Davenport and I will return your sales flyer(exhibit E)
Kevin

[Coolbreeze]

AMCA should have a library of reference materials

Kevin,

If the 1956 Harley KH sales flyer would help future judges and restorers, I would prefer that AMCA keep it in their library. The same goes for the other reference literature I sent to you. I like the idea of AMCA being a reliable authority on antique motorcycles. A well stocked reference library would help AMCA achieve that goal.

George

[cheifrider]

so............

soooo.....................i guess if you are not a lawyer , the tendancy may be to overlook any communication an "average joe "may send requesting a re- evaluation of your score?just curious here .........tom

[portagepan]

You believe everything you see in a sales flyer? I think for judging purposes you need production info.
Mike

[bmh]

You'd be amazed at the info that can be gathered from a sales flyer, or even a single photograph if you're inclined to study them with more than a passing glance. Every piece of old memorabilia has clues about things all through it.
Brian

[portagepan]

I use them too. But to think an artist drawing, which is made to sell a product is the final word is a little to easy.
Mike

[bmh]

After the 30's or so very few are purely the work of an artist, most are air brushed photographs. I have a few where there are entire sections of the machine have never been touched by a comercial artist. It also helps to study the parts themselves, the more familiar you are with the parts in question and thier differences, the easier they are to tell apart in photos. The trick gets to be telling exactly what year bike was photographed originally.
Vrian

[portagepan]

Yes, you are correct. Thanks for the feedback.
Mike

[Coolbreeze]

In my letter to Kevin, I acknowledge that sales flyers may not be an absolute authority, but that they can be helpful. The fact is that we are apparently more interested in what is "correct" for particular models than Harley or Indian ever were. I remember reading about the Austin-Healey factory running low on a certain size bolt; so, they just went to the local hardware store and bought what they needed there. This ambivalence to accuracy makes judging and restoration quite a challenge.

[Chris Haynes]

You'd be amazed at the info that can be gathered from a sales flyer, or even a single photograph if you're inclined to study them with more than a passing glance. Every piece of old memorabilia has clues about things all through it.
Brian

The problem with sales stuff is that that photos are usually retouched and may show a prototype or previous years model.